Done with Neptune, what are alternatives?

[reefiniteasy]

I really want to get a hydros but if you want to add probs and extra stuff do you have to buy another unit ?

I started with a Control 4. I then needed more sense ports so I added a Control XS. Now I have the extra ports I need and the redundancy of running a Collective. I’ve been running Hydros for a long time now and have never had WiFi issues. My internet has gone down so it wasn’t able to communicate with the cloud but my local WiFi never goes down so the Hydros chugs on. I run my modem, router, and Hydros access point in a ups and then I run my Collective on a ups and when the power blips nothing stops. I’m very satisfied with the setup I have.

 

[Yodeling]

Unless you have battery or generator backup (or something else) for your key systems, the power grid to your house is a single point of failure, so it’s somewhat a moot point what or where you plug things into if your power goes out for an extended period.

Yes, it’s unlikely that you’ll blow a fuse in the panel or the plug or surge protector your pump is connected to gets fried, but these things aren’t beyond the realm of possibility, either.

Ideally you want a level of hardware redundancy, ie: dual pumps on separate outlets, multiple controlled thermostats with temperature probes, multiple wavemakers, remote monitoring (independent from your home network), battery backup, etc.

I agree on adding redundancy (I suggested the same thing), but I disagree on the rest. Just because you may have a single point of failure already, doesn't mean you are free to add additional ones without impact. Every additional single point of failure will significantly increase the risk of your system failing. For example, if you have two single points of failure and they both have the same probability of failing, your system is now twice as likely to fail. Of course, the power grid failing for 1-2 days while you're away is much less likely than an Apex crashing and killing your tank (do a google search). Besides, generators and battery backups are fairly common these days.

Obviously, every situation is different. If you're at home 24/7 and can respond to problems quickly, and you want the convenience of a controller, by all means. On the other hand, if you want a piece of mind while you travel, a single controller for everything is not a good idea imho.

 

[dieselkeeper]

I have an Apex controller. I don't have my return pump plugged into it. My display tank is on its own circuit breaker, with GFCI. My return pump is plugged into an outlet in the room that the tank is in, with GFCI. This way if my Apex or GFCI trips, my tank will always have oxygen. Tank is a 210 gal so I don't have to worry about temperature.

 

[blaxsun]

Obviously, every situation is different. If you're at home 24/7 and can respond to problems quickly, and you want the convenience of a controller, by all means. On the other hand, if you want a piece of mind while you travel, a single controller for everything is not a good idea imho.

Yes - it's very much situational dependent. For instance, if you're in a new neighbourhood with lots of development - some sort of battery backup is probably advantageous. If you're in an area prone to high occurrences of lightning strikes, even though it adds another point of failure - a surge protector might be extremely beneficial. And if any degree of distance away from your setup, remote monitoring is probably key.

Fuses blow, surge protectors fry, networks go down and even remote monitoring systems can fail. But that doesn't necessarily mean that all of these things are going to inherently fail, either. It really depends on how bulletproof you want to make your setup and whether you deem that to be cost effective or not.

 

[Grallster]

My Ranco failed in the on position. Almost fried my tank.

 

[NYCMAN]

You could ditch the EB832 and get an EB8. My EB8s have been rock solid.

Agree, I have 5 Eb8s and they are solid.

 

[NYCMAN]

If you choose to repair or sell your failed EB832s, PM me.

I want to sell them. I have two. Just PMed you.

 

[wareagle]

I gave Neptune Apex its last chance. After losing half my equipment last August to an unexplained issue, this week I lost at EB832 while away for 2 days, rendering my tank without a return for 2 days. Replaced it with a spare, plugged into a different AC outlet, and it died as well. It may be a simple fix, like a bad cable, which I replaced. I updated all the software before this latest failure. Since I was home, I got the tank running on normal power strips. But needless to say, I am sick an tired of the too often Apex crisis, especially when they can't be reached on phone and take 24 hours to respond to an email, and it is always, upgrade this to the latest version. What is not discussed is the disaster these frequent failures are causing. So pulling out of Apex. Done.

The question is what are alternatives. I don't want to go GHL and have possibly a better product but with less support. I want simple. So what comes to mind are Powerstrips with smart timers. Issue there is there is no ability to develop programs that have dependencies between outlets, for example shutting of UV when return is off. Worst case I only run UV when I am home and know that return is running, but geez, that is kind of lame. I know I can put the chiller, for example, on a temperature controller as backup to the chillers internal thermostat. That will work fine. I think frankly, the only program I need a dependency on is the UV shutting off whenever the return controlling the UV flow shuts off, else it will burn out. Can put solenoid on Calc Rx with PH probe as well. Easy.

Any thoughts?

You could easily turn off UV or anything else that you want on/off with the return pump. The simplest way would be to use a float switch. You could also use a skimmer overflow sensor installed in the sump, and plug your UV into it, as long as your water level rises when the return pump is off. There are even receptacle plug in relays that will keep things turned off if they lose power and power is restored. I directed a forum member to one so he could prevent his skimmer from overflowing anytime he lost power.

 

[Dolphins18]

I feel your struggles, its a newer unit and I've had some troubles, but customer service has treated me well.
There are many moving parts, and sometimes I long for the reef keeper lite days I once enjoyed, as that was a huge upgrade in its time, which worked flawlessly for many years.
Then I test my alkalinity from the couch and a faint smile sneaks across my face.

 

[LiamPM]

I tried similar, but discovered if the internet goes down so do the switches and then can end up in a non desired state.

Dont trust pumps or heaters to them.

True, but I guess it depends on your individual situation - I can’t remember the last time the internet went down in my home that wasn’t planned - but I am in the UK.

it’s still doable with a raspberryPi or a smart home hub to centralise the smart plugs but then that’s diving deeper in and a different discussion.

still far, far cheaper than an apex or the likes if it’s just for simple on/offs or ifs/then.

 

[Ranjib]

controller do not have to be a single point failure. that is if its affordable there can be dedicated controllers for individual functions (ATO, temperature control etc) which will elminate the single point failure risk. it also does not mean multiple controller will result in fractured user experience. Metrics and workflows can be integrated in single place. Commercial controller are fragmented and have little reason to support this. But this is how industrial and big tech servers run, and since most of its in opensource it will take time for us to piece it together for reef keeping usage.

The smart plug situation is also very similar. They actually can and will work even if internet goes down. For example reef-pi can still control tplink smart plugs and power strips , as long as the local wifi network is good.
It is indeed significant work for non technical users to run and diagnose these systems, hopefully we'll make this better with time

 

[gbroadbridge]

controller do not have to be a single point failure. that is if its affordable there can be dedicated controllers for individual functions (ATO, temperature control etc) which will elminate the single point failure risk. it also does not mean multiple controller will result in fractured user experience. Metrics and workflows can be integrated in single place. Commercial controller are fragmented and have little reason to support this. But this is how industrial and big tech servers run, and since most of its in opensource it will take time for us to piece it together for reef keeping usage.

The smart plug situation is also very similar. They actually can and will work even if internet goes down. For example reef-pi can still control tplink smart plugs and power strips , as long as the local wifi network is good.
It is indeed significant work for non technical users to run and diagnose these systems, hopefully we'll make this better with time

I'll have a look at reef-pi.

I've worked in embedded systems for many years. A lot of my home is controlled by PIC MCU's.
My business mail server run's on a pi running linux, and it's certainly a muture, robust and stable platform.

 

[Reefvision]

Been using Hydros 4 since December. Mostly monitor with this. I like it, but would not trust it or any controller units that are really hobby grade for return pumps, heaters ect. Ph monitor and temperature probe for fan output is ok, although I’ve had to replace temperature probe and ph probe (pinpoint) that failed already. Cost is pretty reasonable for me.

 

[robsworld78]

In another few years everyone will be talking about and wanting a Robo-Tank, it will be the most reliable, affordable, functional and super easy to use controller around.

 

[TheDragonsReef]

I only use my apex system for dosing, monitoring parameters, and failure alarms. Everything else is plugged into the wall.