Dose or no dose for Lps and Softies

So.... red seas recipe for a mixed reef is not correct? Or.. not correct enough for most reefers not to use it?
 
My tank is a 120 gallon mixed reef with a 30 gallon sump, 2 yrs old. I consider it a medium bioload. Mostly softies and lps which for the most part have done pretty good. I have 2 sps that I just got... a green stylophora and a green birdsnest frag. Just started dosing (or trying to)a month ago. Everyone has so many mixed opinions on parameters I decided to go with Red Sea's mixed reef recipe bc nothing else was set in stone on what to shoot for. Can someone break this down in plain English so I can understand. Haha!
 
My tank is a 120 gallon mixed reef with a 30 gallon sump, 2 yrs old. I consider it a medium bioload. Mostly softies and lps which for the most part have done pretty good. I have 2 sps that I just got... a green stylophora and a green birdsnest frag. Just started dosing (or trying to)a month ago. Everyone has so many mixed opinions on parameters I decided to go with Red Sea's mixed reef recipe bc nothing else was set in stone on what to shoot for. Can someone break this down in plain English so I can understand. Haha!

OK, I'll break it down. Almost no one keeps alk at 11-12 dKH.

Most people keep at at 7-9 dKH, although I generally think 7-11 dKH is fine unless you have SPS in very low nutrients, where it should be lower (7-8 dKH).

Calcium 400-500 ppm, doesn't really matter the exact value, and a bit higher is OK. Only drawback to elevated calcium is slightly increased precipitation of calcium carbonate (alk and pH are much bigger drivers of the effect). Coral growth is not generally believed to depend on calcium levels if it is 400 ppm or above.

The exact magnesium level also isn't important in the 1280-1350 ppm range, and a bit higher is OK. Higher end may promote coralline algae.

This has more:

Optimal Parameters for a Coral Reef Aquarium: By Randy Holmes-Farley
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/o...-reef-aquarium-by-randy-holmes-farley.173563/
 
Let me give an alternative explanation for what you observed when you scrubbed out CO2 and found the alk to decline. That can and will happen because both coral/coralline uptake of calcium and alkalinity and abiotic precipitation of calcium carbonate rises as the pH rises.

Well, I'm sure what you describe does happen, but perhaps not in my case. The first part, definitely not - This was a relatively acute drop in alk, over about 4 days while I was running that scrubber, and the tank was not that heavily stocked at the time, and mostly new-ish livestock at that. The alk drop was not biotic. Abiotic precipitation - This is always the answer that people give for otherwise unexplained alk drops, because it's hard to disprove, but I witnessed none in my sump, which is where I add two-part, nor did I see any on the glass in front of the return, where I'd also expect it. As I said though, hard to entirely disprove; could adhere to the gravel and you'd never see it.


I'm confused more now than I was.

LOL! Brother, I know how you feel. I haven't yet read the articles that Randy references regarding this business, but I intend to.

And after all this, I still think it's still ok to dose different amounts of two part (as long as they aren't too different), if that's what it takes to keep your tank in the happy zone. I keep my calcium at 430-450 and my alk at 9.5 by dosing about 11% less Reef Fusion 1 than Reef Fusion 2. I am running low but not ultra-low nutrients, so I feel that these numbers work for me. My corals seem to like it too. Equal amounts simply did not result in the right ionic balance, and although I struggled with the decision, I do not regret 'unlinking' the dosing. (Although I'm finding that the magnesium in RF1 is just not enough, especially as some of the monti's start to take off, but unlike another forum member, I'm finding low Mg very easy and safe to treat with liquid Magnesion. Maybe he forgot to shake it first? You definitely need to shake that stuff. )
 
This is always the answer that people give for otherwise unexplained alk drops, because it's hard to disprove, but I witnessed none in my sump, which is where I add two-part, nor did I see any on the glass in front of the return, where I'd also expect it. As I said though, hard to entirely disprove; could adhere to the gravel and you'd never see it.
)

Yes, abiotic precipitation is, or has been, a huge problem for many people, including the owner of Reef2Reef. It happens in all reefs to some extent since seawater is supersaturated, but pH is a massive driver of supersaturation. A rise of 0.3 pH units is equivalent in this regard to a doubling of calcium to 840 ppm or alkalinity to 14 dKH.

Many people have found that higher and higher dosing is not raising alk and calcium they way it should. I'm not sure why you think this is "unexplained". It is easily and properly explained. May be hard to stop, but not hard to understand. You do not always see it.

I'm not sure if it was your situation, or if it was just testing error, but there is no other unexplained sink for alkalinity of the magnitude you describe in the time frame you describe.
 
but there is no other unexplained sink for alkalinity of the magnitude you describe in the time frame you describe.

No testing error. No detectable abiotic precipitation at that time. But the CO2 scrubbing did raise my pH about .2 units fairly quickly, I can't deny that, and so some precipitation probably did occur. However I did not see any corresponding drop in calcium when the alk fell abruptly, so I still do not think that precipitation explains it completely.
 
To the OP, after all of this, are you clear on how to dose to maintain your target of 11.5?
 
No testing error. No detectable abiotic precipitation at that time. But the CO2 scrubbing did raise my pH about .2 units fairly quickly, I can't deny that, and so some precipitation probably did occur. However I did not see any corresponding drop in calcium when the alk fell abruptly, so I still do not think that precipitation explains it completely.

We may just have to agree to disagree, but most people would not reproducibly detect the 13 ppm drop in calcium that would be associated with a 2 dKH drop in alkalinity. :)
 
I does with Red Sea energy. I do does alk, mag, and calcium but you can get around that with good salt, rodi water, and weekly water changes
 
We may just have to agree to disagree, but most people would not reproducibly detect the 13 ppm drop in calcium that would be associated with a 2 dKH drop in alkalinity. :)

Admittedly, that is a small calcium drop, too hard to detect accurately. What is the equation you use to calculate that change? Sounds like one I should write down. :)
 
Admittedly, that is a small calcium drop, too hard to detect accurately. What is the equation you use to calculate that change? Sounds like one I should write down. :)

About 18-20 ppm calcium and 0-2 ppm magnesium for each 1 meq/L (2.8 dKH) of alkalinity :)

These discuss the calculations:

When Do Calcium and Alkalinity Demand Not Exactly Balance? by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-12/rhf/index.htm

and

Reef Chemistry Question of the Day #200 Calcification and The Big Three Parameters
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/r...fication-and-the-big-three-parameters.321163/
 

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