Dosing bacteria to established reef?

[ycnibrc]

@ycnibrc any thoughts?

Lets talk about where beneficial bacteria coming from. A long time ago when we can get real live rock from the ocean which has multi bacteria source to introduce into our reef tank. Forward to now we all start with dry dead rock with just regular nitrobacter for cycling the tank. Those bacteria only good for fish tank only because they only handle amonia to nitrite and to nitrate. If u dont have access to real live rock or rock from someone has real live rock u have not introduce any other beneficial bacteria to your tank.

 

[Javamahn]

Lets talk about where beneficial bacteria coming from. A long time ago when we can get real live rock from the ocean which has multi bacteria source to introduce into our reef tank. Forward to now we all start with dry dead rock with just regular nitrobacter for cycling the tank. Those bacteria only good for fish tank only because they only handle amonia to nitrite and to nitrate. If u dont have access to real live rock or rock from someone has real live rock u have not introduce any other beneficial bacteria to your tank.

I have to believe that everything we add to the tank including livestock brings some biodiversity including bacteria. In the end though it will be survival of the fittest bacteria(s)

 

[LegendaryCG]

I believe adding bacteria will give a temporary boost to the tanks nutrient processing power but then decrease as the bacteria run out of food and die. So it might be good in that regard to help process a little more waste.

 

[ycnibrc]

I have to believe that everything we add to the tank including livestock brings some biodiversity including bacteria. In the end though it will be survival of the fittest bacteria(s)

Yes but its only if you add colony size not 1/2” frag like nowadays. And bacteria dont live forever between your coral consumption and the skimmer if you dont replenished then it will be depleted. This is what we call old tank syndrome in the old days. Some tank crash after 5 years with no reason and a theory was bacteria depletion because the corals are growing bigger therefore their consumption rate is more. Without replenish the bacteria their population reducing result in sps crash.

 

[Salt_Creep]

Is it possible to dose too much bacteria during a start up? I got a bit overexcited during my 4 month cycle and does way more than necessary. I'm at about 8 months now and struggle to keep detectable levels of nitrates. I have had to completley stop running my skimmer and I'm having to dose nitrates daily to stay at 2ppm.

 

[cloggins]

I've been dosing Microbacter7 every other day. Reef has been up just over a year, but things seem to be moving along.

 

[mshur]

Yes but its only if you add colony size not 1/2” frag like nowadays. And bacteria dont live forever between your coral consumption and the skimmer if you dont replenished then it will be depleted. This is what we call old tank syndrome in the old days. Some tank crash after 5 years with no reason and a theory was bacteria depletion because the corals are growing bigger therefore their consumption rate is more. Without replenish the bacteria their population reducing result in sps crash.

Your zeo tank looks wonderful, so i guess adding bacteria works.. Question is what brand is better then other ,there is so many on the market....

 

[ycnibrc]

Your zeo tank looks wonderful, so i guess adding bacteria works.. Question is what brand is better then other ,there is so many on the market....

Lol if i tell u zeovit then may be im bias but they know more about bacteria source dosing than any others. Plus the additive is very concentrated 1 drop per 25g 100ml = 2000 drops. So the 100ml bottle can dose 200 days for a 250g.

 

[mshur]

Lol if i tell u zeovit then may be im bias but they know more about bacteria source dosing than any others. Plus the additive is very concentrated 1 drop per 25g 100ml = 2000 drops. So the 100ml bottle can dose 200 days for a 250g.

ohh, i know everything about zeo..)) many years ago i use to run it, talked to Alexander G on weekly basis )
You can get a great results with zeo but walking on the thin line wasnt for me)) I went back to basics: large skimmer and algea srubber..

 

[Hyde2406]

Adding seawater is markedly different from adding cultured bacteria.
That said, there are still many older tanks in the study with the same results as Paul. The idea that our tanks have a solitary strain of nitrifying bacteria because our tanks are a captive system is still false.

I agree but isn't the issue with the dominant strain of bacteria since it's many types and to add different types periodically to enhance or

Adding seawater is markedly different from adding cultured bacteria.
That said, there are still many older tanks in the study with the same results as Paul. The idea that our tanks have a solitary strain of nitrifying bacteria because our tanks are a captive system is still false.

Agree there are many many types but to add different types to build up additional strains so it isn't dominated by one type for too long has been a thread on R2R forever, I think it is over 100 pages but we all have snowflake tanks and to each their own

 

[OrangeCountyReefer]

I add some if I do a big water change.

 

[ycnibrc]

I agree but isn't the issue with the dominant strain of bacteria since it's many types and to add different types periodically to enhance or

Agree there are many many types but to add different types to build up additional strains so it isn't dominated by one type for too long has been a thread on R2R forever, I think it is over 100 pages but we all have snowflake tanks and to each their own

If I remember correctly Paul is using natural sea water for wc therefore indirectly he replenish the bacteria in his tank. Back in the day not too many sps dominant tank but now its like sps is the only coral reefer wants to keep. A full sps dominant tank requires much different than a mix reef as far as nutrients, parameters, trace elements and bacteria. If u want a sps dominant tank u better beef up your dosing because the coral will consume a lot and grow very fast. My tank is staghorn dominated and they drink alk like a hummer lol

 

[AquaBiomics]

Interesting discussion. Don't take the following as downplaying the importance of bacteria (of course). But so far as I study aquarium microbiomes, it appears to me that most of the things we do to our tanks impact the bacterial community.

Except adding bottled bacteria. I can find , so far, no evidence that any bottled bacteria persist in the aquarium for any period of time at all.

I suggest if people want to modify the amount or types of bacteria in their tank, that almost any other strategy (e.g. nutrient dosing or adding live sand) has more evidence supporting it.

 

[tuesdayd]

I'm pretty sure @Paul B doesn't use NSW for his bacteria source...he goes deep and uses the mud.

 

[Back where it all began]

I dose a product called Remediation. It’s composed of different species of bacteria that are useful for digesting detritus etc. seems to work fine for me.

 

[Wh00pS32]

I've been dosing Microbacter7 every other day. Reef has been up just over a year, but things seem to be moving along.

I've dosed Microbacter7 once a week for the last 5 or 6 years.
The water clarity is so clear the day after and corals always look good the day after as well.
I look at it like this, it's never caused any detrimental effects so i will keep dosing it.

 

[Enerderek]

I dose every time I do water change (20% weekly) with Seachem Stability. Everything seems to be happy.

 

[Daniel@R2R Verified Admin]

Very interesting discussion. Would carbon dosing be as effective as dosing bacteria? Instead of adding more bacteria, maybe feeding the colonies already in there?

 

[MicrobeMan]

Since many bacteria are often opportunistic, adding food for them (i.e. carbon dosing) is likely to have a much greater effect on bacterial production than just adding more bacteria. The reason we don't have more bacteria in our tanks is because they're limited by some factor and in many cases, that's likely organic carbon. If we add more organic carbon for them, they might take off, incorporate N and P into their biomass and when we skim the out, boom, lower nutrients. That's all dependent on if they are in fact limited by Organic carbon, which the results of carbon dosing suggest might be true in many cases.

We certainly have a large diversity of heterotrophic bacteria in our tanks from live rock and sand so we shouldn't really need to add more to beneficially increase that diversity. If you already have some of these key strains in your tank (which we all probably do), they have the potential to take off. There might be something to adding bacteria to a new reef tank but honestly, I wouldn't know.

All of this being said, I've seen the results of Vibrant on this forum and hey, it can work! There's some potential that it could be just calculated carbon dosing but if it works, it works.

All in all, there doesn't seem to be a reason to add more live bacteria for nutrient reduction if the ones you have are already too limited to grow so in most cases, carbon dosing is probably much more effective for nutrient reduction.

I don't know much about how it impacts water clarity though and it seems to work so if that's why you add bacteria and it works, keep it up!

 

[Paul B]

I'm pretty sure @Paul B doesn't use NSW for his bacteria source...he goes deep and uses the mud.

I have been using 100% NSW since I moved here about a year and a half ago because it is in my back yard but for most of the life of the tank I used ASW like everyone else.

I used to add maybe 10 gallons of NSW a few times a year if I was ambitious and went to get it.
But I have always added mud from a bay or lagoon for bacteria along with any pods I could collect.

I am guessing, but I have a strong feeling that is one reason my tank is almost 50 years old and has no problems.

I am also guessing if that has anything to do with the health of the fish or the fact that I don't have to quarantine.
I "think" the mud along with the bacteria in the live food such as worms I feed along with fresh frozen food like clams is the secret to success and the lack of bacteria in the water and the guts of the fish is the reason for the tank crashes and the need for a disease forum.
I just take a handful of this mud at low tide and throw it in with no fanfare. I also have never has any pests that I had a problem with. Of course I pick out any crabs and seagulls.
During high tide the water here is 8' deep.