Dosing help! Swapping from ATI Essentials to ESV Bionic plus mag.

[UABsleeper]

Hey guys so I need a little help I have been using ati essential elements for about the last 6 months and am about to run out I am planning to swap over to esv bionic two part soon and I was wanting yalls input on starting dose for esv vs ati I have read that ati tends to be a little more dilute!

Ati is diluted full strength and Current dose for ati component 1 bicarb is about 20 ml/day component
Component 2 Ca~20 ml/day
Component 3 Mg~15 ml/day

Current water parameters
Dkh ~9.4
Ca~380
Mg~1480
Phos 0.00

What would y’all recommend starting esv at really a little nervous about it considering i have multiple sps and don’t want to have to much of an alkalinity swing.. also wandering how y’all dose mag compared to other components with esv

 

[EmdeReef]

Hey guys so I need a little help I have been using ati essential elements for about the last 6 months and am about to run out I am planning to swap over to esv bionic two part soon and I was wanting yalls input on starting dose for esv vs ati I have read that ati tends to be a little more dilute!

Ati is diluted full strength and Current dose for ati component 1 bicarb is about 20 ml/day component
Component 2 Ca~20 ml/day
Component 3 Mg~15 ml/day

Current water parameters
Dkh ~9.4
Ca~380
Mg~1480
Phos 0.00

What would y’all recommend starting esv at really a little nervous about it considering i have multiple sps and don’t want to have to much of an alkalinity swing.. also wandering how y’all dose mag compared to other components with esv

Do you know your alk and Ca daily consumption?
If not, you should test alk and Ca daily for a few days at least to get a sense of consumption. Otherwise you run the risk of adding too much.

I dose Mg manually once every 10 days or so. It depletes slowly compared to the 2.

 

[UABsleeper]

Do you know your alk and Ca daily consumption?
If not, you should test alk and Ca daily for a few days at least to get a sense of consumption. Otherwise you run the risk of adding too much.

I dose Mg manually once every 10 days or so. It depletes slowly compared to the 2.

Not sure how I would go about calculating daily consumption.. All my additives are on a pump I can tell dosing ~20 ml a day my dkh and calcium stays consistent stays consistent.. not really sure all theI r site tells you is their is 420 grams in 5 l

 

[UABsleeper]

Do you know your alk and Ca daily consumption?
If not, you should test alk and Ca daily for a few days at least to get a sense of consumption. Otherwise you run the risk of adding too much.

I dose Mg manually once every 10 days or so. It depletes slowly compared to the 2.

I found where esv has carbonate hardness 2800meq/l I have not been able to find anything like that on ati’s site if I had that info I would be able to tell the difference in strength of each solution and adjust dosing accordingly

 

[EmdeReef]

I’ve never used ATI. If you have a reliable test kit you can stop dosing and then test around the same time in 24hrs. Unless you have many sps colonies your alk will likely drop by a little and that should not affect anything.

You can then use the below to calculate how much esv to dose. I would slightly undershoot whatever the calculator recommends and then adjust based on further daily tests. It’s critical to test initially until you get a sense.

https://www.marinedepot.com/md_educationcenter_calculators_reef_chemistry_calculator.html

 

[UABsleeper]

I’ve never used ATI. If you have a reliable test kit you can stop dosing and then test around the same time in 24hrs. Unless you have many sps colonies your alk will likely drop by a little and that should not affect anything.

You can then use the below to calculate how much esv to dose. I would slightly undershoot whatever the calculator recommends and then adjust based on further daily tests. It’s critical to test initially until you get a sense.

https://www.marinedepot.com/md_educationcenter_calculators_reef_chemistry_calculator.html

Ha yeah that’s what I’m trying to avoid is a major drop in alk.. my tank is about 90%sps and basically I guess I’m trying to get a consensus on relative strength of esv vs ati

And I use Hanna checker Hanna checker to check alk

 

[Skynyrd Fish]

What made you decide to switch to ESV?

 

[tsav87]

What made you decide to switch to ESV?

I am also curious.

 

[UABsleeper]

What made you decide to switch to ESV?

Mainly because I haven’t really seen the growth or colors I would like.. also because ati recommends dosing each component at the same rate which in my case didn’t work at all my mg was up near 1600 ca around 550 and dkh around 8.4 so.. don’t really like that.. and also I know that esv has been around for a long time with a proven track record of people having great success using it!

 

[EmdeReef]

I think you'd be fine skipping a dose for 24hrs...but...

From MarineDepot "36 mL of ATI Essentials increases KH/alkalinity in 100 liters (26.4 gallons) of aquarium water by 1° KH."
From ESV - 1ml of bionic per gallon will raise alk by 2.07dKh.

 

[rockskimmerflow]

Mainly because I haven’t really seen the growth or colors I would like.. also because ati recommends dosing each component at the same rate which in my case didn’t work at all my mg was up near 1600 ca around 550 and dkh around 8.4 so.. don’t really like that.. and also I know that esv has been around for a long time with a proven track record of people having great success using it!

Hate to break it to you, but ATI desgined the product correctly. You're dosing it wrong if you're seeing those numbers. Off the top you're adding way too much, but the likely culprit is that you're precipitating a lot of your alkalinity component doses and then adding enough to reach 8.0 or so KH. But because of the precipitation the equal dose amount for the Calcium and Mg puts those levels off the charts. You need to reset your levels with a couple large water changes, start dosing at a much much lower level with even inputs across all 3 parts into a high flow area with enough time between each dose. It will work for you. You'll run into the same issues with any 2 part Bionic or otherwise if you don't implement it properly.

 

[tsav87]

Hate to break it to you, but ATI desgined the product correctly. You're dosing it wrong if you're seeing those numbers. Off the top you're adding way too much, but the likely culprit is that you're precipitating a lot of your alkalinity component doses and then adding enough to reach 8.0 or so KH. But because of the precipitation the equal dose amount for the Calcium and Mg puts those levels off the charts. You need to reset your levels with a couple large water changes, start dosing at a much much lower level with even inputs across all 3 parts into a high flow area with enough time between each dose. It will work for you. You'll run into the same issues with any 2 part Bionic or otherwise if you don't implement it properly.

As an ATI Essentials user myself, I have to agree with this.

 

[Skynyrd Fish]

I agree with what there saying also. I'm using ATI also. If you still have product left, let your alk come down to 7.7 or so and see what happens. Cut your dose by 75% and see if alk, CA and Mag come down slowly over the next week.

 

[UABsleeper]

Hate to break it to you, but ATI desgined the product correctly. You're dosing it wrong if you're seeing those numbers. Off the top you're adding way too much, but the likely culprit is that you're precipitating a lot of your alkalinity component doses and then adding enough to reach 8.0 or so KH. But because of the precipitation the equal dose amount for the Calcium and Mg puts those levels off the charts. You need to reset your levels with a couple large water changes, start dosing at a much much lower level with even inputs across all 3 parts into a high flow area with enough time between each dose. It will work for you. You'll run into the same issues with any 2 part Bionic or otherwise if you don't implement it properly.

Ha that’s funny what I was saying is that it is not working with my system! I have have been running ati for the last 6 months .. it is on a dosing pump and dosed 1hr apart the r is no cloudiness in the tank thus no precipitation.. it’s dosed in my sump into the return pump so flow is not an issue thanks though

 

[UABsleeper]

I agree with what there saying also. I'm using ATI also. If you still have product left, let your alk come down to 7.7 or so and see what happens. Cut your dose by 75% and see if alk, CA and Mag come down slowly over the next week.

Alk is fine now this is in the past as in a couple months ago current tank numbers are fine

 

[UABsleeper]

Hate to break it to you, but ATI desgined the product correctly. You're dosing it wrong if you're seeing those numbers. Off the top you're adding way too much, but the likely culprit is that you're precipitating a lot of your alkalinity component doses and then adding enough to reach 8.0 or so KH. But because of the precipitation the equal dose amount for the Calcium and Mg puts those levels off the charts. You need to reset your levels with a couple large water changes, start dosing at a much much lower level with even inputs across all 3 parts into a high flow area with enough time between each dose. It will work for you. You'll run into the same issues with any 2 part Bionic or otherwise if you don't implement it properly.

Here is where my dosing lines are running.. flow and precipitation haven’t been an issue

 

[UABsleeper]

Alk is fine now this is in the past as in a couple months ago current tank numbers are fine

Current tank numbers
Dkh 9.4
Ca-380
Mg1480
As I was saying one of the reasons I had to adjust the rates(several months ago) is because ca and mag were going up and dkh was staying consistent.. now tank has been running stable with the above numbers for 3 months or so.. I was just pointing that out as one of the reasons I wanted to swap..

I’m not trying to get into a debate about which is better.. that was not my original question I was mearly asking for starting dosing advice for esv if anyone has swapped from ati to esv andaybe relative strength of esv vs ati

 

[Scorpius]

Why not 2-part? Dose what you need to keep your parameters where you want them.

 

[rockskimmerflow]

Current tank numbers
Dkh 9.4
Ca-380
Mg1480
As I was saying one of the reasons I had to adjust the rates(several months ago) is because ca and mag were going up and dkh was staying consistent.. now tank has been running stable with the above numbers for 3 months or so.. I was just pointing that out as one of the reasons I wanted to swap..

I’m not trying to get into a debate about which is better.. that was not my original question I was mearly asking for starting dosing advice for esv if anyone has swapped from ati to esv andaybe relative strength of esv vs ati

Bionic is great, wasnt saying one was better than the other.

You need a lot more turbulent flow in your dosing zone. Cloudiness or lack there of in the tank absolutely doesnt rule out precipitation. Add more flow to dosing zone with a maxijet or something, set all doses equal to whatever keeps your kh on the target zone. Looking at the pic of your tank you maybe need 5-10ml max of each ATI solution per day. If your doing more than that or having to dose different amounts, you are having an issue with the dosing itself. Its not the product 'not working for your tank'. Bionic is good stuff too, just no reason to switch if its user error rather than a given product, cause youll run into the same issue with imbalanced dosing using Bionic as well if youre adding too much.

 

[UABsleeper]

Bionic is great, wasnt saying one was better than the other.

You need a lot more turbulent flow in your dosing zone. Cloudiness or lack there of in the tank absolutely doesnt rule out precipitation. Add more flow to dosing zone with a maxijet or something, set all doses equal to whatever keeps your kh on the target zone. Looking at the pic of your tank you maybe need 5-10ml max of each ATI solution per day. If your doing more than that or having to dose different amounts, you are having an issue with the dosing itself. Its not the product 'not working for your tank'. Bionic is good stuff too, just no reason to switch if its user error rather than a given product, cause youll run into the same issue with imbalanced dosing using Bionic as well if youre adding too much.

You know I appreciate your input but it’s hard for me to take your comment serious when you assume I’m dosing the system completely wrong and to much.. and that my system at most should require 5-10ml max.. and yet you know nothing about my tank size.. my coral selection or even really how long I have been using ati’s system

Here is a pic of my tank today
Just looked it up and been running ati since last September
My alkalinity has stable since that point for the most part the dips are when alkalinity has to be increased and adjusted