Dosing help

Brandon Rush

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So I'm new to dosing and the process is kind of overwhelming. My goal is to use my refugium to keep nitrates/phosphates low, and dose remaining items to eliminate water changes. I purchased a four head doser and was looking for some recommendations on what items to dose. I was thinking of a two part system, magnesium supplement, and trace elements. Any advice/product recommendations are greatly appreciated.
 
Brs 2 par alk/cal/mag. Or. Esv 2 part with trace elements but is more pricey but is less stuff for storage
 
Magnesium depletes pretty slowly, not sure if you need to supplement. Dose what you need based on the demands of your tank. Generally this is alk and calcium. A lot of people like BRS two part. I like Red Sea foundation myself. I’d measure what your actual needs are for a week or two and see if it’s needed. Otherwise weekly water changes may be easier/safer in the long run.
 
Magnesium depletes pretty slowly, not sure if you need to supplement. Dose what you need based on the demands of your tank. Generally this is alk and calcium. A lot of people like BRS two part. I like Red Sea foundation myself. I’d measure what your actual needs are for a week or two and see if it’s needed. Otherwise weekly water changes may be easier/safer in the long run.

On your foundation setup do you dose the trace-colors as well or just the foundation elements.
 
Think this provides everything needed trace element wise?

It (B-ionic, or most any two part) does not try to offset the consumption of trace elements. For that purpose, you need a trace element supplement.
 
It (B-ionic, or most any two part) does not try to offset the consumption of trace elements. For that purpose, you need a trace element supplement.
I was looking at esv's two part and it looks like it has all the trace elements in it.
 
I was looking at esv's two part and it looks like it has all the trace elements in it.

That's a complex question, more than you might think. A two part optimally should have all elements in it, but it doesn't actually supplement them, it just keeps them from being reduced by the method itself.

I discuss that effect with a particular example (copper) from one of my articles:

http://www.reefedition.com/the-many-methods-for-supplementing-calcium-and-alkalinity/

One issue that has confused some reef keepers, however, is the presence of trace elements. Assuming that these products are actually formulated with every ion such that a true natural seawater residue remained (let’s call this the “ideal” product), then it will necessarily contain such ions as copper. Since copper is elevated in some reef tanks, and is toxic to many invertebrates, reef keepers have wrongly criticized this method as adding more copper. That’s actually not what would happen. Since these products leave a natural seawater residue, and since copper may be elevated in concentration in many reef tanks relative to seawater, then using these “ideal” products will actually LOWER copper levels because when the increase in salinity is corrected, the copper will drop.

For example:

You have copper in your aquarium at 4 ppb and salinity of S=35.

You add a two part additive that over the course of a month raises salinity to S=36, and raises copper to 4.02 ppb.

Then you correct the salinity back to S=35 by diluting everything in the tank with fresh water, and you get a final copper concentration of 3.9 ppb.

Does this happen in real products and not “ideal” products? I have no idea. But the statement by manufacturers that it contains all ions in natural ratios, including copper, should not be viewed as a concern that it is exacerbating a heavy metal problem.

The rise in salinity of these products over time can be very roughly calculated, though there are several reasons why this calculation is only an estimate. For every 1000 meq of alkalinity added in this fashion (and the matching amount of calcium) these products will deliver on the order of 60 grams of other ions to the tank. In a tank with a low calcification demand (defined later to be 18.3 thousand meq of alkalinity per year in a 100 gallon tank (0.4 dKH/day)) this effect will raise the salinity by 3 ppt per year (compared to a normal salinity of S ~35). In a high demand tank (defined later to be 219 thousand meq of alkalinity per year in a 100 gallon tank (4.4 dKH/day)), the salinity will rise by 35 ppt in a year, or approximately doubling the salinity. Consequently, the salinity should be monitored closely in using these types of additives, especially in a tank with high calcification rates.
 
I do dose Red Sea colors, usually a very small amount of each after a water change. 0.5ml is what I currently dose. I’ll be honest though I’m not dosing based on clacium consumption like you should... but so far the tank looks amazing and everything is happy and healthy.
 
IMO, weekly/bi-weekly water changes would be easier. I use Red Sea's Reef Energy A/B and Reef Roids, I try not to play the mad scientist chasing results. Too much work and room for error for me. You can stress and wipe out your whole reef with one miscalculation so for me, less is best. How many gallons is your reef anyway. Good luck and Keep Reefing.
 
I do dose Red Sea colors, usually a very small amount of each after a water change. 0.5ml is what I currently dose. I’ll be honest though I’m not dosing based on clacium consumption like you should... but so far the tank looks amazing and everything is happy and healthy.

FWIW, it makes little sense to me to base trace element dosing on calcium consumption unless hard coral growth is the main consumer of trace elements,. In many cases, other organisms are much more likely to dominate (soft corals, anemones, microalgae, macroalgae, bacteria, etc.).
 
FWIW, it makes little sense to me to base trace element dosing on calcium consumption unless hard coral growth is the main consumer of trace elements,. In many cases, other organisms are much more likely to dominate (soft corals, anemones, microalgae, macroalgae, bacteria, etc.).
That’s a great point... it all seems a little voodoo to me, but the instructions recommend dosing the color program based on either calcium consumption or measuring the actual “core elements” which I’m sure most people do not test. Red Sea states “Our research also identified A constant ratio between each of the coral colors and the overall consumption of calcium, which is proportional to coral growth and metabolic activity.”
I just error on the side of caution and dose a very small amount weekly after my water change. The tank looks great so I stick to my routine. I also use Red Sea coral pro salt which I thought was supposed to have many major, minor and trace elements already in it.. so I’m not sure the coral color program is adding much, but the tank looks great and everything is happy and thriving so I stick with it. Anyone know if these are the same “elements” in the salt vs the coral color supplements?
 
That’s a great point... it all seems a little voodoo to me, but the instructions recommend dosing the color program based on either calcium consumption or measuring the actual “core elements” which I’m sure most people do not test. Red Sea states “Our research also identified A constant ratio between each of the coral colors and the overall consumption of calcium, which is proportional to coral growth and metabolic activity.”
I just error on the side of caution and dose a very small amount weekly after my water change. The tank looks great so I stick to my routine. I also use Red Sea coral pro salt which I thought was supposed to have many major, minor and trace elements already in it.. so I’m not sure the coral color program is adding much, but the tank looks great and everything is happy and thriving so I stick with it. Anyone know if these are the same “elements” in the salt vs the coral color supplements?

Yes, I know they recommend that and I would not follow it. :D

Sure, any given tank will likely have a trace element uptake that is in concert with calcium or alk uptake in some way, but does anyone think a soft coral tank and an SPS tank will have the same ratio?

FWIW, all salt mixes have lots of trace elements, but generally, water changes (and foods, which probably add much more than water changes over time) cannot keep up with demand for some trace elements, such as iron, manganese, etc.
 
IMO, weekly/bi-weekly water changes would be easier. I use Red Sea's Reef Energy A/B and Reef Roids, I try not to play the mad scientist chasing results. Too much work and room for error for me. You can stress and wipe out your whole reef with one miscalculation so for me, less is best. How many gallons is your reef anyway. Good luck and Keep Reefing.

Appreciate the advice, I have a 34 gallon display with a 20 gallon sump.
 
So after some thought imI thinking of going with the the Triton method, anyone have any advice/pointers?
 
So after some thought imI thinking of going with the the Triton method, anyone have any advice/pointers?

If you mean their method of measuring and controlling each element independently, I think it is an excellent method that is both expensive and tedious, but one I might pick for a future tank (at least my own version of it). [emoji3]
 

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