Dosing NeoPhos

[tbrown]

I have been dosing NeoPhos for a couple of months. Recently I got gifted a Jebao doser and have been using that. I was hand dosing 10 ml daily (2 hand doses of 5 ml) so I setup the Jebao to dose 1 ml 10 times per day. My phosphates are staying very stable from day to day and hour to hour which is great. I'm doing from a 500 ml NeoPhos bottle that I refill from my bigger jug but it seems like the 500ish ml isn't lasting more than a month.

My question: if the bottle cap is off does the NeoPhos evaporate? And if it evaporates wouldn't it leave a more concentrated solution and cause my phosphates to rise?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Now if one tank has way more rock and sand then another similar size tank wouldn't there be different levels of absorption and subsequent leaching after equilibrium is reached?

Equilibrium does not mean leaching, unless you are trying to drive levels lower than they currently are.

But yes, more exposed rock and sand surfaces provide more area for taking phosphate up (when the water is higher in concentration) and also for releasing it (when the water is lower in concentration).

 

[Lavey29]

Folks sometimes do not realize that there is a huge daily throughput of phosphate. Foods typically add 0.02 to 0.3 ppm of phosphate per day, whether it is eaten or not. Thus, changes in sinks will greatly impact whether phosphate is accumulating, and how fast.

Aquarium Chemistry: Phosphate And Math: Yes You Need To Understand Both

Foods are by far the most important source of phosphate in most aquariums. In considering whether sources of phosphate other than foods are important, one must carefully look to the actual amounts involved to determine whether other sources are even worth trying to minimize.

reefs.com

Do you know why some of the basic products such as GFO seem to have little or no effect once equilibrium is reached and phosphate leaches back into the tank from the rocks?

Is it because whatever the GFO removes it is rapidly replaced with more phosphate from the rocks leaching combined with the daily imput of phosphate as you mentioned above?

 

[Johnic]

Following along....I've been trying to get my phos off of .01-.02 up to .1 for a week dosing 30ml a day in my 80 gal.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Is it because whatever the GFO removes it is rapidly replaced with more phosphate from the rocks leaching combined with the daily imput of phosphate as you mentioned above?

That is my expectation of why it is unusually hard to reduce phosphate in a reef tank.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Following along....I've been trying to get my phos off of .01-.02 up to .1 for a week dosing 30ml a day in my 80 gal.

No reason to not up the dose.

 

[tbrown]

Hey @Randy Holmes-Farley I'm currently running at 0.12 and everything seems pretty happy. I'm not seeing much Algae growth. No reason to try to lower it, right?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Hey @Randy Holmes-Farley I'm currently running at 0.12 and everything seems pretty happy. I'm not seeing much Algae growth. No reason to try to lower it, right?

Nope.

 

[billyocean]

Hey @Randy Holmes-Farley I'm currently running at 0.12 and everything seems pretty happy. I'm not seeing much Algae growth. No reason to try to lower it, right?

 

[joe-ejs]

Hello. So I am dealing with low nutrients and trying to get a phosphate reading. I am using a Hanna ULR phosphorous test kit and am dosing neophos. So how much can I dose daily without doing harm? It seems my rock is absorbing what I dose. My nitrate is also zero and I can get levels at 5 or whatever I want them to be, but no luck with getting a phosphate reading.

Any advise is appreciated

 

[tbrown]

Hello. So I am dealing with low nutrients and trying to get a phosphate reading. I am using a Hanna ULR phosphorous test kit and am dosing neophos. So how much can I dose daily without doing harm? It seems my rock is absorbing what I dose. My nitrate is also zero and I can get levels at 5 or whatever I want them to be, but no luck with getting a phosphate reading.

Any advise is appreciated

Depends... I was dosing 20 ml daily in a 125 gallon tank (approximately 100 gallons of water in the system including the sump) and it took about a month and a half before dropping back down to 10 ml daily. What is your coral stocking levels? How old is your tank and did you start with dry rock or live rock? Mine was dry, half was actually Aragocrete made by me so I had to "saturate" the rocks before the water would have a reading.

 

[joe-ejs]

Depends... I was dosing 20 ml daily in a 125 gallon tank (approximately 100 gallons of water in the system including the sump) and it took about a month and a half before dropping back down to 10 ml daily. What is your coral stocking levels? How old is your tank and did you start with dry rock or live rock? Mine was dry, half was actually Aragocrete made by me so I had to "saturate" the rocks before the water would have a reading.

So my tank is now at 3yrs of age. I started with all dry rock, so I believe it is absorbing all the phosphate. I am never been able to get a phosphate reading, and lost several corals over the last few months along with other problems. I have the corals back to health but am battling dinos now on my sand bed, and need to start with getting a phosphate reading before I restart dosing NeoNitrate. It sounds like I can go up to 20ml or similar. I have a 100gl tank including sump volume. My tank is medium stocked, but no SPS at the moment. All softies, LPS etc. I dont want to re-introduce any SPS until i get my nutrient levels up and stable.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

If you believe the kit is accurate, and you are detecting none a day after dosing, then you can certainly dose large amounts. 0.1 ppm per day is fine to dose.

 

[joe-ejs]

If you believe the kit is accurate, and you are detecting none a day after dosing, then you can certainly fuse large amounts. 0.1 ppm per day is fine to dose.

Hi Randy,

Thanks for the guidance. I will increase my dosage to the equivalent of .1ppm. I do believe my Hanna test kit is accurate as I took a few steps to confirm. I finally tested water in my QT tank and got readings in that sample, and I also even bought new vials and their calibration solution to confirm operation. Now I just need to get a reading in my display tank.

Also, any thoughts on how soon after dosing I should test? I assume this answer is dependent on how quickly the dosing uptake occurs within the tank?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Hi Randy,

Thanks for the guidance. I will increase my dosage to the equivalent of .1ppm. I do believe my Hanna test kit is accurate as I took a few steps to confirm. I finally tested water in my QT tank and got readings in that sample, and I also even bought new vials and their calibration solution to confirm operation. Now I just need to get a reading in my display tank.

Also, any thoughts on how soon after dosing I should test? I assume this answer is dependent on how quickly the dosing uptake occurs within the tank?

IMO, testing 24 h after dosing is a fine plan as it helps decide what, if anything, is needed to dose that next day. One does not need phosphate present at some particular value every minute.

 

[joe-ejs]

IMO, testing 24 h after dosing is a fine plan as it helps decide what, if anything, is needed to dose that next day. One does not need phosphate present at some particular value every minute.

This makes sense and takes for your ongoing guidance..

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

This makes sense and takes for your ongoing guidance..

You're welcome.

Happy Reefing.

 

[tbrown]

IMO, testing 24 h after dosing is a fine plan as it helps decide what, if anything, is needed to dose that next day. One does not need phosphate present at some particular value every minute.

Only issue is if it bottoms out or spikes too high, right?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Only issue is if it bottoms out or spikes too high, right?

Less than 0.01 ppm is much worse than anything higher, IMO. I recommend to err on the side of more. It is easy to stop dosing if things seem to be getting too high.

 

[GARRIGA]

It should not work that way. Phosphate should not come off and ever generate a higher concentration than the rock and sand was initially exposed to.

More likely what happened is that the rock and sand surfaces came to equilibrium
and stopped taking up large amounts. Then the big daily input from foods had fewer sinks to go to, and stayed in the water more, raising levels.

Could replacing rocks act as sequestration of phosphates such as having an area in the sump where rocks can be exchanged once phosphate levels start elevating which might indicate equilibrium?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Could replacing rocks act as sequestration of phosphates such as having an area in the sump where rocks can be exchanged once phosphate levels start elevating which might indicate equilibrium?

Yes, but you'd probably want a cheap source of calcium carbonate. Maybe quarried limeestone of fairly small size to give more surface area.