Dosing potassium nitrate or coral foods?

lbacha · Mar 20, 2018

Randy

How do you keep a potassium nitrate solution or mono potassium Phosphate solution that's not refrigerated from molding? I just added mine to a doser and I know from past experience it will eventually get a white mold if not refrigerated.

With my freshwater tank I manually dose once a day and keep my macro's and micro's in the fridge.

In my reef I wanted to spread the dose out hence the dosers and I want to reduce maintenance so I created a dose that will last about 2 weeks

Randy Holmes-Farley · Mar 20, 2018

lbacha said:
Randy

How do you keep a potassium nitrate solution or mono potassium Phosphate solution that's not refrigerated from molding? I just added mine to a doser and I know from past experience it will eventually get a white mold if not refrigerated.

With my freshwater tank I manually dose once a day and keep my macro's and micro's in the fridge.

In my reef I wanted to spread the dose out hence the dosers and I want to reduce maintenance so I created a dose that will last about 2 weeks

I had not anticipated growth in a pure inorganic solution like this. Was there anything else in it? Vitamins, etc?

Making it more concentrated could help.

lbacha · Mar 20, 2018

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
I had not anticipated growth in a pure inorganic solution like this. Was there anything else in it? Vitamins, etc?

Making it more concentrated could help.

I actually created a highly concentrated solution of KNO3 (4 tsp to 125ml of rodi) and put it in a lexan chemical bottle I use for storing scotch samples (so I know it's air tight) and put it in the cabinet I store my test kits in. I was using it to raise my NO3 with a small dose once a day. After a week or two it got a white film growing on the bottom and after a couple more weeks it started turning grey. It wasn't the salt falling out of solution it was defiantly something growing. I mixed up a new solution and put it in the fridge and it's been there a month with no issues.

The solution I made for my doser is 5 tsp in 1250 ml of rodi. This worked out to needing 1ml an hr which I like better than the 1ml a day. I'll let the everyone know if it molds at all and shoot some pictures if it does.

nhlives · Mar 20, 2018

Docdiggy said:
This is good info. I was on reefcentral asking about dosing nitrate. Somebody recommended brightwell. Has anyone used their nitrate additive?

I use it. Seems to work fine. Zoas doing much better. Dose lightly at first. I'm nowhere close to Brightwell's recommendation.

hybridazn · Mar 20, 2018

lbacha said:
I actually created a highly concentrated solution of KNO3 (4 tsp to 125ml of rodi) and put it in a lexan chemical bottle I use for storing scotch samples (so I know it's air tight) and put it in the cabinet I store my test kits in. I was using it to raise my NO3 with a small dose once a day. After a week or two it got a white film growing on the bottom and after a couple more weeks it started turning grey. It wasn't the salt falling out of solution it was defiantly something growing. I mixed up a new solution and put it in the fridge and it's been there a month with no issues.

The solution I made for my doser is 5 tsp in 1250 ml of rodi. This worked out to needing 1ml an hr which I like better than the 1ml a day. I'll let the everyone know if it molds at all and shoot some pictures if it does.

Well that's interesting, do you habe any pics of the mold issue?

chomoney · Mar 20, 2018

I notice some folks mentioning a potassium nitrate and sodium nitrate mix...

What’s the reasoning behind that? Looking to dose potassium intentionally as well?

NY_Caveman · Mar 20, 2018

I have read that Montipora love potassium, but no personal experience with it. With planted tanks I would mix certain chemicals to avoid say a sodium surge, but not sure it is the same concern for marine.

MTBake · Mar 20, 2018

chomoney said:
I notice some folks mentioning a potassium nitrate and sodium nitrate mix...

What’s the reasoning behind that? Looking to dose potassium intentionally as well?

I figured since either one could be used to increase nitrates, why not try a mixed solution and see what happens

I'm switching to the mixed solution this weekend. My initial mix of stump remover only is just about used up.

Edit:
This new mix is also sans stump remover. I found food grade potassium nitrate on Amazon.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Mar 20, 2018

chomoney said:
I notice some folks mentioning a potassium nitrate and sodium nitrate mix...

What’s the reasoning behind that? Looking to dose potassium intentionally as well?

I’d pick sodium nitrate in all cases, although it probably doesn’t matter too much.

If you know you need potassium, I’d dose potassium chloride to fix it. The amount of potassium dosed in potassium nitrate is unlikely to be exactly what is needed, and if you need none, may slowly raise it above where you want it .

ajhudson15 · Mar 30, 2018

If I were to buy the sodium nitrate and it comes in a granular form. How do I know how much water to mix it with for dosing

MTBake · Mar 30, 2018

This thread has some good info in it...

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/question-about-spectracide-stump-remover-dosing.213281/

I used sodium nitrate and potassium nitrate mix when I made my solution. Both lab or food grade.

ajhudson15 · Mar 30, 2018

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
I’d pick sodium nitrate in all cases, although it probably doesn’t matter too much.

If you know you need potassium, I’d dose potassium chloride to fix it. The amount of potassium dosed in potassium nitrate is unlikely to be exactly what is needed, and if you need none, may slowly raise it above where you want it .

I read the article mentioned above where you talk about adding 10 grams to 1 liter of water and dosing 1ml per 2 gallons. My question is. Is that the same calculation for sodium nitrate as well or just the stump remover

Randy Holmes-Farley · Mar 30, 2018

ajhudson15 said:
I read the article mentioned above where you talk about adding 10 grams to 1 liter of water and dosing 1ml per 2 gallons. My question is. Is that the same calculation for sodium nitrate as well or just the stump remover

When using a recipe designed for potassium nitrate, sodium nitrate is not much different. If you want to be "perfect", us 84% as much sodium nitrate. So if it called for 1 gram of potassium nitrate, use 0.84 g of sodium nitrate.

MTBake · Mar 30, 2018

ajhudson15 said:
I read the article mentioned above where you talk about adding 10 grams to 1 liter of water and dosing 1ml per 2 gallons. My question is. Is that the same calculation for sodium nitrate as well or just the stump remover

I've read that it's the same but can't find the thread I read that in.

Keep an eye on phosphate levels while starting out with nitrate dosing. I'm now dosing more phosphorus than nitrates. By volume anyway. Dosing my tank up to .1 ppm of po4 and it uses that up in 24 hrs. I use the Hanna ulr phosphorus checker for monitpring. The nitrates drop about 2ppm during that same time frame. I'm now keeping nitrates around 10 ppm and shooting for .1 ppm phosphates. Kinda hoping the system balances out so I can reduce dosing. I guess time will tell if that's a possibility or not.

ajhudson15 · Mar 30, 2018

I am currently dosing 3 ml of Red Sea nopox but I'm hoping that I can start dosing nitrates because my nitrates are reading 0 and right now my phosphates are reading .15 so I'm hoping by using the Red Sea I can lower my phosphates while dosing nitrates to raise them because I don't want them at zero

ajhudson15 · Mar 30, 2018

Will the sodium nitrate be able to raise my nitrates even since I'm dosing a nitrate and photos reducer

Randy Holmes-Farley · Mar 30, 2018

ajhudson15 said:
Will the sodium nitrate be able to raise my nitrates even since I'm dosing a nitrate and photos reducer

If you add enough, certainly.

NOPOX is not a great way to reduce phosphate, however. It's not a "balanced" method like growing macroalgae is.

JVU · Mar 30, 2018

Randy- By balanced I’m assuming you mean following the Redfield ratio, as was defined in plankton? In which case it’s the first I’ve heard that the bacteria stimulated by NOPOX do NOT consume nutrients approximately proportional to the Redfield ratio. Clearly it is somewhere on the spectrum since we are just adding the C in the C : N : P ratio to lower N and P. Do you know how the ratio is different? And out of curiosity, is there a study you are aware of showing this?

Randy Holmes-Farley · Mar 30, 2018

JVU said:
Randy- By balanced I’m assuming you mean following the Redfield ratio, as was defined in plankton? In which case it’s the first I’ve heard that the bacteria stimulated by NOPOX do NOT consume nutrients approximately proportional to the Redfield ratio. Clearly it is somewhere on the spectrum since we are just adding the C in the C : N : P ratio to lower N and P. Do you know how the ratio is different? And out of curiosity, is there a study you are aware of showing this?

No, that's not really what I meant.

Experimentally, reefers find that organic carbon dosing is very effective at nitrate reduction and much less effective at phosphate reduction.

The likely reason is the organics driving denitrification, a processes that uses organic and nitrate, but no phosphate. The bacteria do need both N and P to grow, but the denitrification itself is a one sided process where they use nitrate instead of O2 to metabolize organics..

I show it here for methanol, but it applies to other organics as well:

12 NO3– + 10 CH3OH + 12 H+ → 10 CO2 + 6 N2 + 26 H2O