Dosing

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Just curious....
What do most people dose, 2 part or just kalk?
When you do either, do you always have to do Mg with both or do you not need Mg with Kalk?

If Kalk does it all, then why don't most people just dose that?
 
I cannot comment on Kalk but I dose 2 part as well as Mg once a week into my new saltwater (because my salt mixes up low).
 
Just curious....
What do most people dose, 2 part or just kalk?
When you do either, do you always have to do Mg with both or do you not need Mg with Kalk?

If Kalk does it all, then why don't most people just dose that?

Limewater (kalkwasser is a German word) does not add any useful amount of magnesium (even the Brightell brand which wrongly claims to do so). Whether you ever need to dose any magnesium when using it depends on your salt mix and extent of water changes. I dosed limewater for 20 years. It is a fine way to go.

With a two part, magnesium is usually either incorporated into the calcium part, or is added as a third part. Either way, it is more important than when using limewater for two main reasons: for the same alk added, more is needed when using a two part than when using limewater, and it is possible to add a lot more alk with a two part while limewater is limited by evaporation rates.
 
So if doing limewater - mg gets added via water changes/salt mix brand.
If doing 2 part - mg needs to be added as a 3rd part.

With limewater....wouldn't it be possible to dose too much if it's in your ATO...depending on evaporation rates?

Is there a better one? Which method is better for your tank? Which method grows coral faster?
Why would someone choose one over the other?
 
With limewater....wouldn't it be possible to dose too much if it's in your ATO...depending on evaporation rates?

Certainly. You will need to adjust how much solid calcium hydroxide you add to the top off water to match tank demand

You may also find that even when you add as much as can dissolve, it is not enough. That is a primary reason many SPS tanks use a two part instead of limewater.

There is no "better" between these. Both work perfectly well within the constraints of their systems.

I compare these and other methods here:

The Many Methods for Supplementing Calcium and Alkalinity - REEFEDITION
https://www.reef2reef.com/blog/the-many-methods-for-supplementing-calcium-and-alkalinity
 
Great, thank you!

Are there averages in regards to how much of each to dose based on tank size and loads? Or is it different for every tank and you have to get the levels to where they are supposed to be, then monitor/test depletion, then get dosing amounts from that?
 
Great, thank you!

Are there averages in regards to how much of each to dose based on tank size and loads? Or is it different for every tank and you have to get the levels to where they are supposed to be, then monitor/test depletion, then get dosing amounts from that?

Dosing is best based on alkalinity declines, using a calculated amount to offset that decline. There are averages, of course, that can be used as a starting dose, but don't dose anything if alkalinity is not declining from where you want it.
 
Is it the same with Calcium too then once alk is in line?
Is it best to dose alk throughout the day as well as Ca once you get them dialed in, or do you do one at night and the other during the day?
 
Is it the same with Calcium too then once alk is in line?
Is it best to dose alk throughout the day as well as Ca once you get them dialed in, or do you do one at night and the other during the day?

Alk changes a lot faster on a percentage basis, so first step is to fix dosing to match the alk demand. If you are using a two part, you can then tweak the calcium dose if over many days it appears to keep falling or is rising. Don't tweak it after 1-2 days because there's too much testing variabiltiy in that time frame.

It doesn't matte when you dose calcium.

The alk dosing time would depend on whether you are most interested in stabilizing alkalinity (dose spread out during the day when demand is highest) or in bringing up the pH minimum (dose at night when pH is lowest). :)
 
What is a good number to shoot for for Alk? I see 8-10, but should it be closer to 8 or 10?
 
What is a good number to shoot for for Alk? I see 8-10, but should it be closer to 8 or 10?

In general, higher alk (say, 9-12 dKH) gives faster growth, and lower alk (7-8.5 dKH) allows nutrients to be lower.

Here's my discussion which gives reasons for different levels:

Optimal Parameters for a Coral Reef Aquarium: By Randy Holmes-Farley
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/o...-reef-aquarium-by-randy-holmes-farley.173563/

Alkalinity

Like calcium, many corals also use "alkalinity" to form their skeletons, which are composed primarily of calcium carbonate. It is generally believed that corals take up bicarbonate, convert it into carbonate, and then use that carbonate to form calcium carbonate skeletons. That conversion process is shown as:

HCO3- → CO3-- + H+

Bicarbonate → Carbonate + proton (which is released from the coral)

To ensure that corals have an adequate supply of bicarbonate for calcification, aquarists could just measure bicarbonate directly. Designing a test kit for bicarbonate, however, is somewhat more complicated than for alkalinity. Consequently, the use of alkalinity as a surrogate measure for bicarbonate is deeply entrenched in the reef aquarium hobby.

So, what is alkalinity? Alkalinity in a marine aquarium is simply a measure of the amount of acid (H+) required to reduce the pH to about 4.5, where all bicarbonate is converted into carbonic acid as follows:

HCO3- + H+ → H2CO3

The amount of acid needed is equal to the amount of bicarbonate present, so when performing an alkalinity titration with a test kit, you are “counting†the number of bicarbonate ions present. It is not, however, quite that simple since some other ions also take up acid during the titration. Both borate and carbonate also contribute to the measurement of alkalinity, but the bicarbonate dominates these other ions since they are generally lower in concentration than bicarbonate. So knowing the total alkalinity is akin to, but not exactly the same as, knowing how much bicarbonate is available to corals. In any case, total alkalinity is the standard that aquarists use for this purpose.

Unlike the calcium concentration, it is widely believed that certain organisms calcify more quickly at alkalinity levels higher than those in normal seawater. This result has also been demonstrated in the scientific literature, which has shown that adding bicarbonate to seawater increases the rate of calcification in some corals. Uptake of bicarbonate can consequently become rate limiting in many corals. This may be partly due to the fact that the external bicarbonate concentration is not large to begin with (relative to, for example, the calcium concentration, which is effectively about 5 times higher).

For these reasons, alkalinity maintenance is a critical aspect of coral reef aquarium husbandry. In the absence of supplementation, alkalinity will rapidly drop as corals use up much of what is present in seawater. Water changes are not usually sufficient to maintain alkalinity unless there is very little calcification taking place. Most reef aquarists try to maintain alkalinity at levels at or slightly above those of normal seawater, although exactly what levels different aquarists target depends a bit on the goals of their aquaria.

Interestingly, because some corals may calcify faster at higher alkalinity levels, and because the abiotic (nonbiological) precipitation of calcium carbonate on heaters and pumps also rises as alkalinity rises, the demand for alkalinity (and calcium) rises as the alkalinity rises. So an aquarist generally must dose more calcium and alkalinity EVERY DAY to maintain a higher alkalinity (say, 11 dKH) than to maintain 7 dKH. It is not just a one-time boost that is needed to make up that difference. In fact, calcification gets so slow as the alkalinity drops below 6 dKH that reef aquaria rarely get much below that point, even with no dosing: natural calcification has nearly stopped at that level.

In general, I suggest that aquarists maintain alkalinity between about 7-11 dKH (2.5 and 4 meq/L; 125-200 ppm CaCO3 equivalents). Many aquarists growing SPS corals and using Ultra Low Nutrient Systems (ULNS) have found that the corals suffer from burnt tips if the alkalinity is too high or changes too much. It is not at all clear why this is the case, but such aquaria are better served by alkalinity in the 7-8 dKH range.
As mentioned above, alkalinity levels above those in natural seawater increase the abiotic precipitation of calcium carbonate on warm objects such as heaters and pump impellers, or sometimes even in sand beds. This precipitation not only wastes calcium and alkalinity that aquarists are carefully adding, but it also increases equipment maintenance requirements and can “damage†a sand bed, hardening it into a chunk of limestone. When elevated alkalinity is driving this precipitation, it can also depress the calcium level. An excessively high alkalinity level can therefore create undesirable consequences.

I suggest that aquarists use a balanced calcium and alkalinity additive system of some sort for routine maintenance. The most popular of these balanced methods include limewater (kalkwasser), calcium carbonate/carbon dioxide reactors, and the two-part/three part additive systems.

For rapid alkalinity corrections, aquarists can simply use baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) or washing soda (sodium carbonate; baked baking soda) to good effect. The latter raises pH as well as alkalinity while the former has a very small pH lowering effect. Mixtures can also be used, and are what many hobby chemical supply companies sell as “buffersâ€. Most often, sodium carbonate is preferred, however, since most tanks can be helped by a pH boost.
 
So my Alk was at 9.02 this morning at 6:15 am.
Tonight at 8:30 pm it is 8.74

Does that seem like typical depletion during the day?
I have a BRS doser for Ca and Alk....but the past couple days I've been turning them on manually via my apex to get the levels up. Basically running the alk for 15 minutes.
Does anyone know what code I should put in my Alk? How much do I want to be dosing each day?
 
ok, thanks.
Also....is it normal that I see more alk decline thank Ca? My Ca seems pretty stable the past couple days.
Doing a Mg test now too.
 
Mg was 1500.
Never added any as of yet, just been doing water changes.
 
ok, thanks.
Also....is it normal that I see more alk decline thank Ca? My Ca seems pretty stable the past couple days.
Doing a Mg test now too.

The expected ratio is 2.8 dKH alk for each 18-20 ppm calcium. For a small drop in both, only alk is readily detectable by kit.
 

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