Dottybacks other than orchid in groups

[dotty]

In a 100 gallon tank, which dottybacks other than orchids are possible to be housed in a group of 6-8. Their only tankmates are gonna be pajama cardinals and striped blennies. I'm currently interested most in the splendid, sunrise. and neon dottyback and I plan to get the captive bred, if that affects conspecific aggression.I will only choose one species though

 

[dzfish17]

Most aquarists are afraid of adding one dottyback let alone a group of them. I have a 600 gal tank and only have an orchid in there. I had a neon in it a few yrs back and he tortured most of the small fish (and a few of the bigger ones as well). The only way it may work would be to add the group (all of the same , not a mix) all at once and very small. Just be aware that your other fish might be killed. This is just my opinion... Good luck

 

[dotty]

Most aquarists are afraid of adding one dottyback let alone a group of them. I have a 600 gal tank and only have an orchid in there. I had a neon in it a few yrs back and he tortured most of the small fish (and a few of the bigger ones as well). The only way it may work would be to add the group (all of the same , not a mix) all at once and very small. Just be aware that your other fish might be killed. This is just my opinion... Good luck

Yea, thanks!
I guess it's just me who likes dottybacks so much. No invertebrates in my tank and just fang blennies who should defend themselves and pajama cardinals that are hopefully different enough. I heard of orchids being fine together but maybe it varies by fish

 

[dzfish17]

Yea, thanks!
I guess it's just me who likes dottybacks so much. No invertebrates in my tank and just fang blennies who should defend themselves and pajama cardinals that are hopefully different enough. I heard of orchids being fine together but maybe it varies by fish

Don't get me wrong, I love dottybacks but watching one harass another fish is not fun... Lol. You may be right that adding the group might work out as they will be busy with each other and leave your other fish alone. If you do add the group please let me know how it goes. PS... Welcome to the site.

 

[mattzang]

sankeyi and the fridmani combos would probably work fine. neons are pretty aggressive even for a dottyback

the other well known more peaceful dottybacks are the elongate, springeri, and then the splendid and sunrise. the last two seem to get reports of being super timid or fairly aggressive from time to time

i've never tried multiples, but @mort i believe has bred them so he can comment on their group behavior

i have an orchid and once i get some of my more peaceful fish in my tank i'm going to toss him in at the same time as at least one other dottyback. still deciding between sankeyi and/or electric indigo

 

[dotty]

sankeyi and the fridmani combos would probably work fine. neons are pretty aggressive even for a dottyback

the other well known more peaceful dottybacks are the elongate, springeri, and then the splendid and sunrise. the last two seem to get reports of being super timid or fairly aggressive from time to time

i've never tried multiples, but @mort i believe has bred them so he can comment on their group behavior

i have an orchid and once i get some of my more peaceful fish in my tank i'm going to toss him in at the same time as at least one other dottyback. still deciding between sankeyi and/or electric indigo

Thanks!
I guess neons are out of the picture.
Sankeyis seem to be fine in groups as they are like that in the wild although a tank raised environment may be different. Still interested in potentially housing a harem of either splendid or sunrise, but I'll probably do sankeyi if its impossible. Im not too worried about interspecific aggression because I won't keep any invertebrates and the pj cardinals and fang blennies should be able to defend themselves.

 

[mattzang]

you could contact ORA or one of the other dottyback breeders and see what they think. ORA has responded to my messages on fish quite a few times

 

[mort]

The biggest group I've kept dotties in is 4. This is just about the limit for you to get one male that can control his females. It's a brutal world on the reef and the females will challenge the male for dominance and if he can't keep them under control, one will switch and you will see fisticuffs.
Dottybacks are capable or female to male and male to female sex change, so dominance is important. They can also be brutal and if kept in harems, the male who is mostly unseen when breeding age, as he guards the eggs, will likely be killed after a couple of years simply because they wear themselves out defending the eggs and the dominant female steps up and becomes male.

The dilemma with your tank is the group size you'd like. I think 6-8 would be difficult based on my experience simply because it's to big for one male to comfortably keep control of all the females but not big enough for two males to coexist with separate harems unless you are lucky. You might get away with it if you go for fridmani or sankeyi but I don't think you'd have any luck with sunrise or splendid. Whilst neons are one of the coolest dotties they are very aggressive and can be difficult to keep even in pairs. It might be because I had wild stock but the male would attack the female violently on the belly and try to kill her when she got near the eggs. The offspring seemed to coexist better but it's not a species I'd want to attempt a group with.

 

[dotty]

The biggest group I've kept dotties in is 4. This is just about the limit for you to get one male that can control his females. It's a brutal world on the reef and the females will challenge the male for dominance and if he can't keep them under control, one will switch and you will see fisticuffs.
Dottybacks are capable or female to male and male to female sex change, so dominance is important. They can also be brutal and if kept in harems, the male who is mostly unseen when breeding age, as he guards the eggs, will likely be killed after a couple of years simply because they wear themselves out defending the eggs and the dominant female steps up and becomes male.

The dilemma with your tank is the group size you'd like. I think 6-8 would be difficult based on my experience simply because it's to big for one male to comfortably keep control of all the females but not big enough for two males to coexist with separate harems unless you are lucky. You might get away with it if you go for fridmani or sankeyi but I don't think you'd have any luck with sunrise or splendid. Whilst neons are one of the coolest dotties they are very aggressive and can be difficult to keep even in pairs. It might be because I had wild stock but the male would attack the female violently on the belly and try to kill her when she got near the eggs. The offspring seemed to coexist better but it's not a species I'd want to attempt a group with.

Thank you so much! I guess I will scrap the idea of 6-8 and I might only do 2-4. Will sunrise and splendid be fine in such a setup? Also would keeping the dottybacks in pairs be easier on the male or would keeping them in groups of 3-4

 

[mort]

I've never kept splendid in more than a single specimen. I have had sunrise as a pair and they did fantastically well so I don't think a harem would be a problem for them. Pairs or harems of 3-4 fish (perhaps 5 if you went for fridmani) should be similar in terms of care/success.

The male in pairs shows his dominance to begin with but once established and in breeding condition he isn't seen much. When happy he will nearly constantly guard a ball of eggs and if he has more than one female, that egg mass just gets bigger. The females don't seem to really challenge him at this point or its not something I've seen. You tend to only see aggression towards him when he becomes physically frail (loses weight etc) and this can take 2-3 years. Single male fish or females can easily live 8 years plus, so it shows the toll breeding can take but he has fathered 1000's of babies.

 

[dotty]

I've never kept splendid in more than a single specimen. I have had sunrise as a pair and they did fantastically well so I don't think a harem would be a problem for them. Pairs or harems of 3-4 fish (perhaps 5 if you went for fridmani) should be similar in terms of care/success.

The male in pairs shows his dominance to begin with but once established and in breeding condition he isn't seen much. When happy he will nearly constantly guard a ball of eggs and if he has more than one female, that egg mass just gets bigger. The females don't seem to really challenge him at this point or its not something I've seen. You tend to only see aggression towards him when he becomes physically frail (loses weight etc) and this can take 2-3 years. Single male fish or females can easily live 8 years plus, so it shows the toll breeding can take but he has fathered 1000's of babies.

Sounds like a plan! I might do a harem of sunrise dottybacks to get more eggs, and load manage the dottybacks a bit by separating them when I get enough eggs.