Dr Tim's failing to work.

[dedragon]

no point in buying anymore bacterial solutions for your tank though, waste of money you have enough added. Alk can be increased via soda ash (alk part of 2 part solution), do you have an alk test kit?

 

[Cell]

I've set up 3 or 4 tanks in the past year. Water goes in, I let it run overnight to stabilize temp, dump in Bio-spira, wait a day, then add fish. Never had any issues. I swear by the stuff. No reason to spend more on others that do the same thing.

 

[NanoReeferLancashire]

no point in buying anymore bacterial solutions for your tank though, waste of money you have enough added. Alk can be increased via soda ash (alk part of 2 part solution), do you have an alk test kit?

Nope I don't have alk kit yet, wasn't expecting to need just yet TBH. But I will get one and try this.

Thank you.

 

[NanoReeferLancashire]

I've set up 3 or 4 tanks in the past year. Water goes in, I let it run overnight to stabilize temp, dump in Bio-spira, wait a day, then add fish. Never had any issues. I swear by the stuff. No reason to spend more on others that do the same thing.

Yeah. I left the tank overnight too, then threw in the Dr Tim's ammonia and the One N only.

 

[dedragon]

your fine with bacteria then, just need to figure out the cycle stall. great test kits include Salifert, red sea pro, or hanna checker for alkalinity

 

[NanoReeferLancashire]

your fine with bacteria then, just need to figure out the cycle stall. great test kits include Salifert, red sea pro, or hanna checker for alkalinity

Thank you. I will look at some Alk tests from your list. Been thinking about investing in Hanna tests for Ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, but with the cost of them, I wanna research a bit more for accuracy etc. They are obviously easier than trying to match colours etc.

 

[monkeyCmonkeyDo]

Your all sold. LOL.
Ty america.
I dont add fish the next day to my sw tanks.
D

 

[Garf]

Thank you. I will look at some Alk tests from your list. Been thinking about investing in Hanna tests for Ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, but with the cost of them, I wanna research a bit more for accuracy etc. They are obviously easier than trying to match colours etc.

I would just keep the API until your cycled (you won’t need the ammonia or nitrite after that). The kits tend to take a kicking when threads pop up that seem to go against the “Rules”. They ain’t perfect but once you know about the imperfections you can manage with them. Like lots of things, it’s always possible to get a bad batch, you’ve evidence that’s not the case here.

 

[Screwgunner]

What kind of water are you using.

 

[Azedenkae]

I would just keep the API until your cycled (you won’t need the ammonia or nitrite after that). The kits tend to take a kicking when threads pop up that seem to go against the “Rules”. They ain’t perfect but once you know about the imperfections you can manage with them. Like lots of things, it’s always possible to get a bad batch, you’ve evidence that’s not the case here.

Lol I totally agree with this. My API ammonia test kit is working as it should, and I am very sure if ever something goes wrong the test kit will be the first to be blamed.

Not saying it is perfect. Not saying everyone knows to shake it vigorously, etc. But I think it is getting a lot more flak than it deserves.

 

[brandon429]

A

I agree api can be wielded cleanly and its main issue is over sensitivity not undersensitivity and the first person I ever heard call that was Seabass from nano-reef.com in about 2008. She was right, early on.
Dan, Taricha, yours, many others can get good yellow safe zones on reefs with them, then they're legit.


many of the good proofs we use for new cycling science came from strong control over api. the 100% water change after 8 ppm/ still cycled thread was api proven

so was the 2 month unassisted cycle. it just has lots of handling and reference variables in my opinion. seneye is just so darn accurate when tuned its showing us how each tank behaves the same across the size spectrum vs shows individual nitrification characters. they all streamline the same power in about the same timeframe, due to our overuse of surface area and flow so common.

 

[NanoReeferLancashire]

Finally looks like I am getting small traces of Nitrate, so I will watch it another couple of days.

Thanks for all the advice on here, been most helpful.

Hopefully just another week or so to wait now.

 

[Bodyguard]

I noticed in the initial post you said you didn't drop you salinity which is where I believe you went wrong and also didn't raise you temp high enough. That is a huge issue if doing a fishless cycle. You need to drop this to 20ppt and raise temp to 84 degrees. The BB that you cycle using DR. Tims thrives in the lower salinity range and higher temp which is why if doing a fishless cycle Dr. Tim recommends dropping the salinity and elevating the temp to 84-85 degrees. He has a video (which can be found on BRS, just search for Dr. Tim's) which is roughly an hr long. In that video he shows a chart of what type and what range BB thrives when cycling. Very good info. In the short, cycling at the higher salinity and lower temp is going to slow the process down and take a lot longer. The directions are there for a reason. If you deviate from them, your going to get different results.

I would not have added the additional Fluval bacteria. One-and-Only is really all in the name.

Just for reference I did a fishless cycle using Dr. Tims method and dosed the Ammonia. I did this 6 weeks ago from today and I cycled my tank in 10 days (~40gal with sump). I started my tank at 20ppt salinity and set my temp to 84 degrees. Once cycled and over the course of 4 days I slowly dropped the temp to 78 degrees and did small water changes everyday to raise the salinity to 35ppt. I added a pair of clowns a couple days later. I too used API test kits for pH, Nitrite, and Ammonia. You don't need anything fancy for testing during a cycle. Just something to tell you your seeing changes and progress is coming along. Is it blue or is it not. Is it yellow or green.

Hope this helps.

 

[NanoReeferLancashire]

I noticed in the initial post you said you didn't drop you salinity which is where I believe you went wrong and also didn't raise you temp high enough. That is a huge issue if doing a fishless cycle. You need to drop this to 20ppt and raise temp to 84 degrees. The BB that you cycle using DR. Tims thrives in the lower salinity range and higher temp which is why if doing a fishless cycle Dr. Tim recommends dropping the salinity and elevating the temp to 84-85 degrees. He has a video (which can be found on BRS, just search for Dr. Tim's) which is roughly an hr long. In that video he shows a chart of what type and what range BB thrives when cycling. Very good info. In the short, cycling at the higher salinity and lower temp is going to slow the process down and take a lot longer. The directions are there for a reason. If you deviate from them, your going to get different results.

I would not have added the additional Fluval bacteria. One-and-Only is really all in the name.

Just for reference I did a fishless cycle using Dr. Tims method and dosed the Ammonia. I did this 6 weeks ago from today and I cycled my tank in 10 days (~40gal with sump). I started my tank at 20ppt salinity and set my temp to 84 degrees. Once cycled and over the course of 4 days I slowly dropped the temp to 78 degrees and did small water changes everyday to raise the salinity to 35ppt. I added a pair of clowns a couple days later. I too used API test kits for pH, Nitrite, and Ammonia. You don't need anything fancy for testing during a cycle. Just something to tell you your seeing changes and progress is coming along. Is it blue or is it not. Is it yellow or green.

Hope this helps.

Hi, yes, this was the only deviation I made to the Dr Tim's instructions, I saw his video, I think it was on the BRS channel. My reasoning for taking this approach, was that if I grow the bacteria at 20ppt, and this is what they become "used to", then once I increase salinity to 1.025, that it might "kill off" most bacteria. I have increased the temperature though, right from day 1, as even I understand it will produce faster at higher temp, then slowly reduce it back to 25c once the cycle has finished.

I am not a scientist, (as you can tell) but this just made sense to me. Maybe by doing this I have caused the cycle to take longer, I don't know.

Thanks for the reply.

 

[Bodyguard]

I noticed in the initial post you said you didn't drop you salinity which is where I believe you went wrong and also didn't raise you temp high enough. That is a huge issue if doing a fishless cycle. You need to drop this to 20ppt and raise temp to 84 degrees. The BB that you cycle using DR. Tims thrives in the lower salinity range and higher temp which is why if doing a fishless cycle Dr. Tim recommends dropping the salinity and elevating the temp to 84-85 degrees. He has a video (which can be found on BRS, just search for Dr. Tim's) which is roughly an hr long. In that video he shows a chart of what type and what range BB thrives when cycling. Very good info. In the short, cycling at the higher salinity and lower temp is going to slow the process down and take a lot longer. The directions are there for a reason. If you deviate from them, your going to get different results.

I would not have added the additional Fluval bacteria. One-and-Only is really all in the name.

Just for reference I did a fishless cycle using Dr. Tims method and dosed the Ammonia. I did this 6 weeks ago from today and I cycled my tank in 10 days (~40gal with sump). I started my tank at 20ppt salinity and set my temp to 84 degrees. Once cycled and over the course of 4 days I slowly dropped the temp to 78 degrees and did small water changes everyday to raise the salinity to 35ppt. I added a pair of clowns a couple days later. I too used API test kits for pH, Nitrite, and Ammonia. You don't need anything fancy for testing during a cycle. Just something to tell you your seeing changes and progress is coming along. Is it blue or is it not. Is it yellow or green.

Hope this helps.

Just for clarity the 84temp is fahrenheit. Which would be ~29C.

 

[NanoReeferLancashire]

Just for clarity the 84temp is fahrenheit. Which would be ~29C.

Yeah I upped it to 27/28c.

I intend to keep my tank around 25c once I get fish in and eventually coral.

Thanks again.

 

[simecircle]

I’m not a scientist either, but assuming Dr Tim is? I watched that video as well and followed his advice closely and achieve the results he promises. The key takeaways being that:

1/ there are different species nitrifying bacteria and those that live in marine conditions can survive and thrive in many conditions including temperatures as low as 10 degrees

2/ they reproduce more quickly at higher temperatures

3/ they need more energy to maintain their structure at higher salinity levels so have less to reproduce

4/ it’s easy enough (and more efficient) to cycle at higher temperatures and lower salinity (if doing fish less) and then change the water before adding fish

I did this with Dr Tim’s One and Only and it all worked perfectly, fingers crossed!!

I follow these threads as I am fascinated by what brandon429 is saying, who inevitably turns up. As i say, I followed above and ended up with consistently measurable processing of ammonia and nitrites down to perfect yellow and blue test results, but I think, brandon might say I didn’t need to? I mean this with utmost respect as I believe English to be his second language and his prose is sometimes quite ornate, but I believe that brandon is saying

- once you have nitrates you’re cycled and instances of people poisoning their fish with ammonia are overstated

- consumer grade test kits are so inaccurate that this increases the chances of this overstatement

I might be wrong/ oversimplifying his opinion (I’d like someone to point me to where he has best articulated it) and I should also point out I am giving no advice, merely what I have seen from a very limited (in terms of saltwater) experience.

 

[Bodyguard]

I’m not a scientist either, but assuming Dr Tim is? I watched that video as well and followed his advice closely and achieve the results he promises. The key takeaways being that:

1/ there are different species nitrifying bacteria and those that live in marine conditions can survive and thrive in many conditions including temperatures as low as 10 degrees

2/ they reproduce more quickly at higher temperatures

3/ they need more energy to maintain their structure at higher salinity levels so have less to reproduce

4/ it’s easy enough (and more efficient) to cycle at higher temperatures and lower salinity (if doing fish less) and then change the water before adding fish

I did this with Dr Tim’s One and Only and it all worked perfectly, fingers crossed!!

I follow these threads as I am fascinated by what brandon429 is saying, who inevitably turns up. As i say, I followed above and ended up with consistently measurable processing of ammonia and nitrites down to perfect yellow and blue test results, but I think, brandon might say I didn’t need to? I mean this with utmost respect as I believe English to be his second language and his prose is sometimes quite ornate, but I believe that brandon is saying

- once you have nitrates you’re cycled and instances of people poisoning their fish with ammonia are overstated

- consumer grade test kits are so inaccurate that this increases the chances of this overstatement

I might be wrong/ oversimplifying his opinion (I’d like someone to point me to where he has best articulated it) and I should also point out I am giving no advice, merely what I have seen from a very limited (in terms of saltwater) experience.

I didn't dive into it in my post but yes your bullets 1,2,3,&4 are very good to point out.

And yes, Dr. Tim is a scientist of many years.

I followed the fishless cycle to a T as well and had great results. Currently 6 weeks into phase II.

 

[Azedenkae]

I’m not a scientist either, but assuming Dr Tim is? I watched that video as well and followed his advice closely and achieve the results he promises. The key takeaways being that:

1/ there are different species nitrifying bacteria and those that live in marine conditions can survive and thrive in many conditions including temperatures as low as 10 degrees

2/ they reproduce more quickly at higher temperatures

3/ they need more energy to maintain their structure at higher salinity levels so have less to reproduce

4/ it’s easy enough (and more efficient) to cycle at higher temperatures and lower salinity (if doing fish less) and then change the water before adding fish

I did this with Dr Tim’s One and Only and it all worked perfectly, fingers crossed!!

I follow these threads as I am fascinated by what brandon429 is saying, who inevitably turns up. As i say, I followed above and ended up with consistently measurable processing of ammonia and nitrites down to perfect yellow and blue test results, but I think, brandon might say I didn’t need to? I mean this with utmost respect as I believe English to be his second language and his prose is sometimes quite ornate, but I believe that brandon is saying

- once you have nitrates you’re cycled and instances of people poisoning their fish with ammonia are overstated

- consumer grade test kits are so inaccurate that this increases the chances of this overstatement

I might be wrong/ oversimplifying his opinion (I’d like someone to point me to where he has best articulated it) and I should also point out I am giving no advice, merely what I have seen from a very limited (in terms of saltwater) experience.

Yep, that is the gist of what Brandon tends to say. I think. His English is very hard for me to understand as well. He has his own viewpoint of cycling and likes to talk about it. I am sure it works out for him and some others.

But yes, Dr. Tim's method works too, whether it is with his products or otherwise. And yes, Dr. Tim is a scientist and has a PhD. His full name is Timothy A. Hovanec and do have peer-reviewed publications, though not too many and the last one was a while ago. Though that is also not unusual for someone who left academia.

As far as I can tell, he does seem to generally know what he is doing. Generally.