Dr Tims. Waste Away Killed my Shrimp??

[Dark_Knightt]

So i get home from school today, and i notice I cant find my cleaner shrimp. I figured he may just be hiding away, because he molted the day before. But then my mom spots his body behind a rock, lifeless. I just dosed Dr. Tims a few days ago, and i remember reading about Dr. Tims killing fish and inverts.
I dosed a half dose like it instructed about 2 weeks ago, so 10ml (i have a 20g tank), and everything was fine:algae was starting to die back, etc. Then this monday i dosed the 20ml like it says, and on wednesday my shrimp is dead. Relation #reefsquad ? I check my params and nothing has changed since last time i checked, everything fine.
Hope you can help...

 

[Spare time]

Waste away would not kill it. The only one of their products that they say may affect them is re-fresh. The two events probably have no relation to one another.

 

[brandon429]

whatever need your tank has to justify buying those items, we can remedy far better without them

were you adding that stuff to reduce an invasion

we wouldnt need it for cycling in a tank housing lysmata, Im thinking this was a hands off algae control run?

 

[lion king]

These algae cleaning products do 2 things that I know of, lower 02 and lower ph. Just these 2 actions alone can be dangerous in their own right. I would expect inverts could be effected. These products are so vague on their real ingredients, they say "beneficial bacteria", sorry no bacteria can work that fast or be that effective. There are other ingredients that I am very suspect of. I learned the hard way, I ask in a thread titled "Is vibrant trying to kill my lions".

 

[Miller535]

These algae cleaning products do 2 things that I know of, lower 02 and lower ph. Just these 2 actions alone can be dangerous in their own right.

This is exactly right. On a different thread Dr. Time was answering questions and for this reason he said to start well below the full dose and to always dose WHILE lights are on as to not drop ph any lower then it already is in the middle of the night.


Just because you dosed it does not mean it killed anything. That's a giant assumption. Especially when you are only talking about 1 single shrimp, when a number of things could have happened to it. Especially right after a molt.

 

[Dark_Knightt]

whatever need your tank has to justify buying those items, we can remedy far better without them

were you adding that stuff to reduce an invasion

we wouldnt need it for cycling in a tank housing lysmata, Im thinking this was a hands off algae control run?

Algae control

 

[vetteguy53081]

Before assuming this, did you check parameters?
Ammonia-nitrate-ph-salinity-temperature?

Recommended:
Salinity 1.025
Temperature 77-79
Ph. 8.1-8.3
Nitrate .03
Ammonia. .02
Ca. 450

Also could have had difficulty with molt
Can you see actual meat/flesh in the shell ?

 

[brandon429]

It’s ok to experiment with various dosers, but in the end there’s a reason this is thirty pages of happy reefs also keep this one in mind:

Reef2Reef Pest algae challenge thread hydrogen peroxide

Thank you for the quick reply and guidance. it Is a Waterbox 100.3 so a take down is fairly easy. Went through it to get all the fish out a month ago and is no problem. All corals on plugs aside from the nem so that is also a non issue. Conchs, snails, hermits, fire and cleaner shrimp is all...

www.reef2reef.com

thats you cleaning the reef a certain way, no dosers. Each after pic matches what the reefer wanted from the start. Takes work to effect, till a non work way has as many clean fixes. No doser will beat that, hence lack of alternate reads. Fluconazole and vibrant are handy. But they don’t work across invasions like that above and they cause more waste impaction vs remove it. Killing algae by doser takes a tank already loaded with detritus and adds more as decaying plant mass.


those items should be tested if ever in the clean tank condition, not the invaded condition.

most people require params, and ID of the invader before making a plan. We never did, all plans are the same for each tank regardless.

try any other method first, if its not as good as thought then that above is very predictable.

 

[Dark_Knightt]

Before assuming this, did you check parameters?
Ammonia-nitrate-ph-salinity-temperature?

Recommended:
Salinity 1.025
Temperature 77-79
Ph. 8.1-8.3
Nitrate .03
Ammonia. .02
Ca. 450

Also could have had difficulty with molt
Can you see actual meat/flesh in the shell ?

Params are as said, but the color on the shrimp body is getting brighter, so it may just be resting and not moving while its new exosqueleton hardens properly. Im going to leave it in for a day or two to see if my speculation is correct.

 

[Miller535]

As stated above, waste away causes o2 and Ph to drop for a few hours, but then it rebounds. So unless you were watching your tank the whole time, or have a controller to verify the ph never dipped, you would never know it ever happened.

 

[Spare time]

Waste away is not an algae fighting bacteria. They scavenge for detritus and what not to break down waste into biomass than can be consumed by corals, filter feeders, other microbes, or skimmers. It can compete with algae, but does not directly predate on it as is suspected in one of the bacterial strands in vibrant.



I believe this is another case of correlation and not causation. If it was an oxygen related issue, your fish would have ben showing obvious signs of distress. There are so many other things that went on when the shrimp died, that we can't say what killed it specifically. If you have repeated cleaner shrimp deaths multiple times, or several things dying at once, then I would be worried. Things die, sometimes from obvious causes and sometimes from something random. I once accidentally scared a fish at night at it died from some sort of heart attack. Random deaths can happen, its when you have a pattern or system wide deaths that it should be of greater concern.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Params are as said, but the color on the shrimp body is getting brighter, so it may just be resting and not moving while its new exosqueleton hardens properly. Im going to leave it in for a day or two to see if my speculation is correct.

That is my suspicion and a dead one would actually be fading to greyish

 

[Dark_Knightt]

Waste away is not an algae fighting bacteria. They scavenge for detritus and what not to break down waste into biomass than can be consumed by corals, filter feeders, other microbes, or skimmers. It can compete with algae, but does not directly predate on it as is suspected in one of the bacterial strands in vibrant.



I believe this is another case of correlation and not causation. If it was an oxygen related issue, your fish would have ben showing obvious signs of distress. There are so many other things that went on when the shrimp died, that we can't say what killed it specifically. If you have repeated cleaner shrimp deaths multiple times, or several things dying at once, then I would be worried. Things die, sometimes from obvious causes and sometimes from something random. I once accidentally scared a fish at night at it died from some sort of heart attack. Random deaths can happen, its when you have a pattern or system wide deaths that it should be of greater concern.

I think it may have been correlation, because my nem and my bubble coral have been looking slightly stressed, and its not oxygen because the fish are doing great, no gasping for air whatsoever. Im not 100% sure if the shrimp is dead yet, he may just be recovering from a molt and i dont want to disturb him because that could seriously affect him. If hes not moving around by tomorrow afternoon smth must be off.The waste away may have been too strong for his new exosqueleton to handle

 

[AquaLogic]

I think it may have been correlation, because my nem and my bubble coral have been looking slightly stressed, and its not oxygen because the fish are doing great, no gasping for air whatsoever. Im not 100% sure if the shrimp is dead yet, he may just be recovering from a molt and i dont want to disturb him because that could seriously affect him. If hes not moving around by tomorrow afternoon smth must be off.The waste away may have been too strong for his new exosqueleton to handle

So, it's been about 4 years. Has the shrimp had enough time to recover yet?