Dry rock cycling "stucked"?

[Jackmot]

I would do the following in this order. Throw away the API test kit and replace with Salifert or Red Sea. Turn the skimmer off (you have nothing to skim). And finally, continue what you have been doing. Looks like everything is going well, if a bit slow. Nothing good in this hobby happens fast (except maybe bank balance dropping lol)

Edit. I would increase the amount of rock in the tank and take out the wood in the display. Wood is generally not advised in a reef system as it may leech undesirable elements into your system.

I would love to throw away the API but I'm short on money right now
The skimmer is on not for skimming but for aeration, is that not such s good idea??
Believe it or not there is no wood!! The rock in the DT is 100% rock haha

By the way.. how much water do you have in your full system (tank + sump?)

I have approximately 30 liters in total. The DT is 14 liters and the sump is max 20 liters

Live rock is usually a good idea

Looks like I'll be scouting my LFS in order to get some live rock from a healthy tank then )

 

[Jackmot]

That’s some kind of coral branch

That's exactly what it is haha

 

[Jackmot]

Live rock is usually a good idea

Looks like I'll be scouting my LFS in order it get some live rock from s healthy tank )

That’s some kind of coral branch

That's exactly what it is hahaha

I would do the following in this order. Throw away the API test kit and replace with Salifert or Red Sea. Turn the skimmer off (you have nothing to skim). And finally, continue what you have been doing. Looks like everything is going well, if a bit slow. Nothing good in this hobby happens fast (except maybe bank balance dropping lol)

Edit. I would increase the amount of rock in the tank and take out the wood in the display. Wood is generally not advised in a reef system as it may leech undesirable elements into your system.

I would love to throw away the API but I'm short on money right now
The skimmer is on not for skimming but for aeration, is that a bad idea??

By the way.. how much water do you have in your full system (tank + sump?)

I have approx 30 liters. The DT is 14 liters and the sump is 20 liters max

 

[Jackmot]

Sorry for the double message ://

 

[Garf]

It’s ok to run your skimmer for aeration, bacteria love oxygen.

 

[Jedi1199]

Ok my bad.. it looks like driftwood to me..

All you need for aeration is to break the surface tension. A powerhead that makes waves at the top of the tank is fine.

Your whole setup is just a touch under 8 gallons.. I wouldn't even run a skimmer on that.. water changes will be more than adequate

 

[Magostini]

It is important to remember that when you test nitrate when you have nitrite, the nitrate result will be impacted. So nitrate should be measured after nitrite is zero.

My suggestion is to change water (ammonia should go below 3 ppm) and after that add bacteria. Then you will have your process re-started... Any time that ammonia or nitrate goes above 5 ppm change the water to avoid this type of problem.

 

[brandon429]

@Azedenkae

question about your assertion:
Given you had dry rock and no sand, the microbes would not have came in any other way either.

My question to you is do you recall the thread post I gave you where a tank with dry rocks, dry sand, water only, cycles up correctly in two months



This OP here can change water, and be done cycling in 100% of cases and not 99%.



readers:
did Steven show here that microbes for cycling get in, without us adding anything, if we wait two months?

Bacteria in a bottle, Myth or Fact

Did the online calc indicate to use one mil in the tank for your gallonage

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Azedenkae]

@Azedenkae

My question to you is do you recall the thread post I gave you where a tank with dry rocks, dry sand, water only, cycles up correctly in two months

I recall the second go where you had the guy dose to 2 ppm right off the bat but we calibrated differently below to show it, in my opinion you should update that info to match findings. this cycle here is done

Sorry, which thread was this again? I don't any of this.

Though just broadly, I guess I can revise to 'not a significant amount is likely' rather than none, because there is always a chance a small amount of nitrifiers can be introduced. Question is whether they effectively establish in our tanks and effectively metabolize ammonia and nitrite.

 

[Jedi1199]

@Azedenkae

question about your assertion:
Given you had dry rock and no sand, the microbes would not have came in any other way either.

My question to you is do you recall the thread post I gave you where a tank with dry rocks, dry sand, water only, cycles up correctly in two months

I recall the second go where you had the guy dose to 2 ppm right off the bat but we calibrated differently below to show it, in my opinion you should update that info to match findings. this cycle here is done

This OP here can change water, and be done cycling in 100% of cases and not 99%.



readers:
did Steven show here that microbes for cycling get in, without us adding anything, if we wait two months?

Bacteria in a bottle, Myth or Fact

Did the online calc indicate to use one mil in the tank for your gallonage

www.reef2reef.com

let me know what Steven showed. If that's not indicated Ill quit saying it, but if it is then u adjust your info/fair

Thank you Brandon for chiming in here. If I read correctly, all it really takes to cycle a tank is time? Similar to making a natural sourdough starter, the bacteria needed are airborne and will find their way into the tank with no outside influence whatsoever? Or am I mistaken?

 

[KrisReef]

I didn't introduced any bacteria, I was about to introduce a small live rock to help the process but then the nitrites started to show up so I thought that the bacteria got into the system somehow

Yeah, I'm not registering any nitrates so far. I was thinking that when the nitrates started to show I could add some Chaeto and see what happens but I don't wanna get ahead of myself haha

Yes, sound like it is cycled.

 

[brandon429]

I got to speak to Dr Tim once he says they’re more water vectored than air. meaning we aren’t boiling / sterilizing this prep water it’s all moving around bacteria until it’s sterilized.
I know the test kits read strangely on the wastewater but if you just change water for mostly new, remove any rotting shrimp and it’ll carry a basic bioload. It would even have nitrite compliance given this long ramp up with feed...but the tests may or may not show it


even ro drinking water containers under a sink, very ULNS environments with no clear input, sour over time with mere RO water holding they have to be cleaned sometimes, their delivery lines need cleaning from actual slough contaminants/ most water we encounter is chock full of various bacteria, some take on the job of ammonia binding as bio filters go.

 

[Jackmot]

Yes, sound like it is cycled.

It is?? because I never encountered any Nitrate and my ammonia is still very high. Should I just do a water change, wait for the levels to come down and start to put some CUC in there??

@Azedenkae

question about your assertion:
Given you had dry rock and no sand, the microbes would not have came in any other way either.

My question to you is do you recall the thread post I gave you where a tank with dry rocks, dry sand, water only, cycles up correctly in two months



This OP here can change water, and be done cycling in 100% of cases and not 99%.



readers:
did Steven show here that microbes for cycling get in, without us adding anything, if we wait two months?

Bacteria in a bottle, Myth or Fact

Did the online calc indicate to use one mil in the tank for your gallonage

www.reef2reef.com

What I had understood is that normally the bacteria would come naturally either from the sand or from the shrimp itself but maybe im wrong. Still I can't understand why if there is no nitrifying bacteria why I suddenly have Nitrites (and before this mess a drop in the ammonia).
What do you mean with "This OP here can change water, and be done cycling in 100% of cases and not 99%." Are you saying that my cicle is done?? sorry haha

 

[Jackmot]

Ok my bad.. it looks like driftwood to me..

All you need for aeration is to break the surface tension. A powerhead that makes waves at the top of the tank is fine.

Your whole setup is just a touch under 8 gallons.. I wouldn't even run a skimmer on that.. water changes will be more than adequate

Don't worry!! thanks for the help. The more answers and opinions I have the better
I ran a skimmer a few years ago in an even smaller system and you would be surprised on how much junk you can skim haha
I have multiple powerbeads that help me to break the surface tension:
2 Current marine wave pumps in the DT and 1 pump that goes from the end of my sump back to the rock chamber. The last one works great for increasing the water flow on the rocks and also for the surface tension

 

[Jackmot]

BTW, a few weeks ago I had this problem. It was like a dust (very easy to remove) that was forming in the water surface just over the rock chamber. The fix was to brake the surface tension a bit more so I installed the pump that I stated in my previous message and it worked perfectly.
Any idea of what this was??

 

[brandon429]

Could be floc from unrinsed initial sand, that is one of the reasons we have you change all water before beginning for the cleanest start

 

[Jackmot]

Could be floc from unrinsed initial sand, that is one of the reasons we have you change all water before beginning for the cleanest start

I tried my absolute best to clean my rocks before starting. I went through a painful process of bleach and RODI water (If anyone else has a Karcher available I strongly recommend to use it, It's way easier to rinse the rocks and way faster. Just fill it with RODI water and you're good to go) but it could absolutely be! Anyways, it's not a problem anymore thanks to the pump haha

So, what do you guys think of this:
I'll try to increase the flow on the rocks and see if I can manage to squeeze some more rock in the system. If this doesn't help in a week I'll do a water change and introduce bit of live rock.

 

[thewire]

API test kit sucks butt! I am still measuring 0 ppm on nitrate after months. My ammonia went from 4 to 0.25 then 0 and still not reading nitrate during cycling!

 

[Azedenkae]

What I had understood is that normally the bacteria would come naturally either from the sand or from the shrimp itself but maybe im wrong. Still I can't understand why if there is no nitrifying bacteria why I suddenly have Nitrites (and before this mess a drop in the ammonia).

Issue is the type of nitrification you may have. Different species exhibit different levels of nitrification under different conditions.

You are right that nitrifiers can come from a lot of places, potentially including the shrimp itself. However, microbes leaving on/in a shrimp can be very different from those living in other environments. Most important is that they may be adapted to very different conditions.

That is why people do suggest an alternative source. Whether it is absolutely true is unclear, but I do err more towards yeah, the 'suitable' nitrifiers likely arise from other sources than shrimps. I mean, I am sure people managed to get success from even just an empty tank plus biomedia plus saltwater, but why make it harder. I was cycling a tank and for two weeks there was no sign of ammonia oxidation. No matter if I even used water from another aquarium. Sure, maybe after months on months it would cycle, but to me that is a waste of time. Live rock or a proven bottled bacteria product is what I would prefer. I used FritzZyme Turbo Start 900 and boom, nitrites immediately.

 

[Jedi1199]

Jackmot,​

brandon429 is the forum expert on tank cycling. I have no hesitation whatsoever on trusting his advice and/or direction.