Dry versus live Rock

[*AKBOB*]

Getting ready to set up my first reef aquarium and have purchased everything except the Rock and sand at this point. During my research I ran into this article that I find suspect to say the least, but it does give me pause for concern, https://reefbum.com/aquascaping/dry-rock-vs-live-rock/ .

For those of you that have established tanks of a couple years that used dry rock exclusively (not live), would you be as kind as to chime in with your prospective, successes and/or failures, perceived or otherwise based on your choice of dry rock (not live) please?

I am leaning towards dry as there is not an LFS locally available and the drive to the airport to pick up internet purchased live rock is well... very long and painful to say the least

 

[Lukas75]

After a couple decades doing this and having experienced many, many a pest I ONLY use dry rock now. There is a drawback to starting dry and that is time. You will need to age in your tank longer than you would otherwise and it would help to have access to a source of coraline algae. How long? Well that's not so easy to answer except to say that coraline growth is a good indicator. If you have no other source, Indo Pacific Sea Farms sells coraline booster packs. Full disclosure I have only seen these advertised I have no experience with the vendor.

http://www.ipsf.com/corallinebooster.html

Another way to introduce what you need is to buy a small amount of "live rock" and quarantine it like you would any new arrival. Once you are satisfied that you will not introduce any pests to your system you can seed the tank with this rock. In a "short" period of time the fauna from this rock will populate your dry rock.

I would strongly suggest using marco rocks and giving them a brief acid wash to knock off the top coat. BRS sells it as well as directly from Marco Rocks. I have followed the acid wash procedure with my set-ups and I have never experienced the phosphate issues that people mention when using dry rock. That having been said every set-up I do includes a robust refugium (and one stab at a biopellet reactor) so it's entirely possible that the phosphates were there but my filtration consumed them.

 

[ReefWithCare]

I hate dry rock - dinos have been a nightmare for me. Even if you can only get a small amount of it, do it. Best source is from a established reefer and then “cook” the rock to cure it and reset it. You want the stuff you can’t see - which has all the biodiversity you need.

My last Dino outbreak was solved via ipsf’s live sand activator.

 

[mta_morrow]

Dry rock is the only route I have ever taken.

A lot of the failures you will read about with dry rock are caused by folks wanting an instant reef and / or shooting for zero nutrients.

Dino’s are blamed on dry rock a lot. That’s a bunch of baloney. Just go to the big Dino thread and look at all the tanks that get Dino’s

As long as you have a level of phosphates and nitrates you really minimize that risk.

Corraline algae is a decent indicator. All you need is 1 frag with a spot of corraline on it and it will spread throughout the tank.

I saw corraline within 3 months in the 2 tanks I started with dry rock.

Then I add an urchin to eat and control the corraline. Looks great, suffocates live rock IMO.

I have always purchased my dry rock from John @reefcleaners

It is clean and does not leech any phosphates.

Whichever dry rock you choose is fine, it’s a personal preference on what kind of look you like as well as customer service.

 

[shred5]

I have been in the reefing hobby for 30 + years.

I have set up tanks with both methods.
I will start by saying you can have a successful tank both ways.

That article isn’t too far off.

Personally, I like live rock the most.

I think the hitchhiker scare is way overblown with live rock. I think live rock should be quarantined first though to trap or remove any bad hitchhikers. I have been doing live rock the whole time and other than a crab or mantis I have never had much issue. They are easy to trap.


That said dry rock has always given me more issues. It seem to need to be pre-cycled because it releases allot of nutrients. Some people bleach and acid bath to help with this some.

Dry rock lacks diversity and I think it causes issues. I think the dino issue that is so prevalent is because of this.


Also I think you need to be far more careful not to introduce something bad with dry rock because it has nothing to defend against it. For example, I had a tub with live rock in it once and I added some dry rock also to cycle it. I also had dropped in some dry rock from another tank that I did not know still had bubble algae and it spread like crazy on the dry rock but none on the live rock. I ended removing the dry rock and bleaching it again. Another example is I added a frag to a tank with dead rock and didn’t remove the plug. Well it had bubble algae on it and took over the dry rock. There were several small live rocks in the tank and they never got any bubble algae on them.


I just think since the hobby has shifted to more dry rock we have seen many more issues with bubble algae, Vermetid snails and dino’s.


There are advantages and disadvantages to both.


I still use both methods I am just now more careful not to introduce stuff to tanks with dry rock.

 

[reacclimating 2 the hobby]

I used to start with only dry rock, but this time around I went 50/50.

Never had an issue with just dry rock, it's just a longer process. There are a couple of vendors that will deliver to your door, so no need to hit the airport.

I'd stick to my last method if the time came to setup a tank again.

 

[Foothill Corals]

I used to be a big LR proponent but after starting my last two tanks with dry rock I have changed my mind. Dry rock works just fine it just takes longer to get it balanced out. My advice is if you are impatient go LR but if you are going to be in this for the long haul go with dry rock you will have less problems over time.

Dry rock: Takes a few extra months (2 to 6 months) to cycle and stabilize. No algae or pests.

Live rock: Much quicker start up (2 weeks to a few months) but who knows what pests and algae you will be dealing with down the road.

 

[Lukas75]

OMG I forgot to say since you're new. Welcome to R2R!!

 

[Mike N]

Live rock is, by far, more entertaining in the first few weeks/months, but it could seriously stunt your potential for long term success.
Many of the nuisances introduced in live rock can turn into serious battles that could last a long time and force you to quit the hobby.
Next time I start a tank, I'll likely be using dry rock and introduce beneficial critters over time.

 

[Westside Guy]

Dry rock, patience is a virtue!

 

[Halal Hotdog]

I have done both over the years and there is a few things I have learned.
1. No matter what I will get vermatids
2. Dry rock takes much longer to build a stable reef system
3. Interesting high hikers don't exist with dry rock
4. Until the dry rock is covered in coral or coraline I will have to be vigilant about nuisance algae
5. Dry rock allows me a ton of aquascape options that live rock does not

If I ever setup another tank I would most likely go with a very live rock. I have never used them but see amazing pictures from Tampa Bay Saltwater. I would actually probably fly down there hand select what I want, then have it shipped back (If I can't take it with me on the plane). Put that in my tank with full reef lights and let that mature and cycle the tank. I would remove any hitchhiker corals and put that in a frag tank/QT tank. I wouldn't add any corals for 3 months or so, but would imagine there would be a plethora of life to keep me entertained on the live rock. In those 3 months I would imagine most coral eating pests should die off and could catch any nasty crabs.

If my wife ever thinks I am planning another tank she said my current tank may have an 'accident'. I get these mob like threats on a regular basis.

 

[ReefWithCare]

I hate dry rock - dinos have been a nightmare for me. Even if you can only get a small amount of it, do it. Best source is from a established reefer and then “cook” the rock to cure it and reset it. You want the stuff you can’t see - which has all the biodiversity you need.

My last Dino outbreak was solved via ipsf’s live sand activator.

If you ware wondering what "cooking" is.

 

[*AKBOB*]

Thanks for the relies and greetings Sorry didn't realize Marine Depot is a sponsored here so I deleted the rest of this post. Poked my finger in that hornets nest I guess :0

 

[shred5]

Thanks for the replies and greetings.

Unfortunately it doesn't look like the reef is gong to happen now. I purchased everything through Marine Depot including the tank. Without going into too much detail when the tank didn't arrive I started questioning Marine Depot (not nice people) and received several different stories (lies) from the two reps I spoke to. It became so bizarre that I decided to contact the manufacturer of the tank this morning (nice people) and they were kind enough to tell me that the tanks are on backorder until the end of April (and that they had notified Marine Depot of this) and even then there is a long list of people waiting for the tank so it was unlikely that I would receive one then. I then contacted Marine Depot again and I now have to pay myself to ship everything back to them and they will not cancel the tank order until the manufacturer cancels the order first. This locks up my funds and my wife is now in a tizzy over the way Marine Depot has handled this, their unapologetic tone etc....

I'll have to regroup after the funds come back to our account (I have a feeling I am going to have to file a chargeback based on Marine Depots attitude) and reassess what I want to do or, what my wife will let me do It took quite a long time to convince her to go along with this tank and it all blew up in my face. Ah, nothing like the taste of crow!

That is odd because They have a very good reputation for taking care of people.

 

[*AKBOB*]

That is odd because They have a very good reputation for taking care of people.

Sorry didn't realize Marine Depot is a sponsored here so I deleted the rest of this post. Poked my finger in that hornets nest I guess :0

 

[mta_morrow]

Thanks for the replies and greetings.

Unfortunately it doesn't look like the reef is gong to happen now. I purchased everything through Marine Depot including the tank. Without going into too much detail when the tank didn't arrive I started questioning Marine Depot (not nice people) and received several different stories (lies) from the two reps I spoke to. It became so bizarre that I decided to contact the manufacturer of the tank this morning (nice people) and they were kind enough to tell me that the tanks are on backorder until the end of April (and that they had notified Marine Depot of this) and even then there is a long list of people waiting for the tank so it was unlikely that I would receive one then. I then contacted Marine Depot again and I now have to pay myself to ship everything back to them and they will not cancel the tank order until the manufacturer cancels the order first. This locks up my funds and my wife is now in a tizzy over the way Marine Depot has handled this, their unapologetic tone etc....

I'll have to regroup after the funds come back to our account (I have a feeling I am going to have to file a chargeback based on Marine Depots attitude) and reassess what I want to do or, what my wife will let me do It took quite a long time to convince her to go along with this tank and it all blew up in my face. Ah, nothing like the taste of crow!

Wow. I have purchased 2 tanks and 95% of my gear and supplies through MD. Never a single issue. Very surprised.

 

[User1]

If you do decide to get a tank and work through whatever is going on there is no right or wrong way to do this. It comes down to a personal choice. I've done live rock shipped in wet newspaper years ago and recently dry Pukani - about as dry as you can get so much that it looks like moon rock. Both have advantages and to some degree disadvantages but again it comes down to the hobbyist and the level of patience they have.

Live rock - so many choices and degrees of what is live. Live such as TBS which is over night air freight and shipped fully submerged is about as live as you are going to get with the least amount of cycle ever. Period. Then there is other aquaculture rock say such as KP Aquatics which again is live but shipped differently than TBS and not fully submerged. While again over night freight it will have a reduced cycle but not has quick as TBS due to lack of fully submerged. Still good stuff though. Both will run a chance of hitch hikers but if truth be told that is half the reason to buy the rock. Hitch hikers can also be good be it sponge or fish or shrimp. Crabs can be caught and removed, etc. Then there is the stuff that you buy from the LFS which is a bit like playing go fish because you really only have their word to go by so have to make some decisions here. May have reduced cycle time maybe not - may have hitch hikers, maybe not, etc. I have never gone this route and never see a need to.

Dry rock is just that - it is dry, dead, moon base nine stuff that you play Mother Nature and bring to life by using any of the more traditional cycling methods. Fish less by dosing ammonia and using bacteria in a bottle. Tossing in food say such as shrimp and letting the cycle start that way. Over the course of 30 to 90 days you will create your own bacteria and biological thing and watch nature take its course while measuring nitrates, ammonia, and set the stage to when it processes ammonia in less than 24 hours - cycle complete.

Like I noted above both have pro and cons with them and both are rewarding. Having done both I can say I prefer live rock better. I saw more diversity in the end along the first year I have to say. Dry, well, takes time to mature. With my new upgrade I actually started the cycle last February, it completed in March, merged tanks in April. So the tank is about 1 year old now with the dry pukani and when I look at it vs rock that I bought live from Fiji in 2000 both look mature but the stuff from Fiji has more corrilane algae, more sponges, and just looks a lot better. It is a lot like a fine bottle of wine. It matures with age. So while my Pukani rock is getting better with time it probably won't ever catch up to what I have from Fiji.

I see the algae growing. I see sponges. I see it darkening up. Maturity takes time. If you have time (patience) then it doesn't matter which route you chose because sooner or later the rock looks good and life forms. That, to me, is something everyone should witness at least once. Mother nature is amazing and I think what you see from 0 to cycle to 3, 6, 9, and 12 months later is going to make you better. I know it did for me anyway. But - there is always a but...if I do another tank I will use rock from TBS. Everything I have seen and the emails I've exchanged with the owner, well, it is just good stuff and worth the money.

Whatever you do - good luck. I think you can't go wrong either way. Just be honest with yourself on the time / patience part. That will guide you.

 

[ReefWithCare]

Honestly your having to pay for shipping experience is the very reason I order through amazon as much as possible. I give up the 5% cashback but o know I won’t have an issue returning anything. I've ordered reality minor items from the big 3 and didn't order the right size and it did not fit, and had to deal with the 15% restock fee or shipping costs to send back. That's all in their policy and fair, but Amazon won't charge me a dime so if I can I'll order off them.

 

[*AKBOB*]

Honestly your having to pay for shipping experience is the very reason I order through amazon as much as possible. I give up the 5% cashback but o know I won’t have an issue returning anything. I've ordered reality minor items from the big 3 and didn't order the right size and it did not fit, and had to deal with the 15% restock fee or shipping costs to send back. That's all in their policy and fair, but Amazon won't charge me a dime so if I can I'll order off them.

Agreed wholeheartedly, but when I place a build order based on their advice and they are unable to provide the tank they promised it is beyond my control and not my fault I am stuck with unusable product. Some accommodation or even a simple, "Hey sorry bout that" would go along ways. Contrary to that it seemed (real or not) as if stall tactics were employed (other negative reviews concerning their business practice alerted me to this) in order to leave us stuck with unusable product.

I'm not fighting it/them, nor have I asked for them to pay the cost of shipping it back, they told me over the phone that I have to pay for it and I left it at that as it has been the same person for the most part I have been dealing with and they are well apprised of the situation. In fact I am on the way out the door now to ship.

I am sure my wife will cool down by next week and by then hopefully the bulk of the funds will be refunded and will build a new one together. After dealing with them I have no doubt that they could care less, but I will not order from them in the future.

On a positive note, Paul at Innovative Marine has been more than helpful. He probably doesn't read these forums, but he was responsive, polite and went out of his way to offer assistance. Thanks Paul and Innovative Marine!

 

[harthag12]

I can't say anthing about the rock but I ordered my IM 100 EXT from IM & Paul was very helpful as well, when I had 2 small issues with the stand he took care of it immediately. On the same note I've ordered a tank & many other items from Marine Depot with out issue. I had 2 48" bulbs arrive broken, they sent me replacements immediately no questions asked & when I had a skimmer on back order for a few months which I had no problem with they gave me 1500 reward points for my patience. I'm sorry you had a bad experience with them but I don't believe that's a norm. Can you just keep the items & buy a similiar tank to the IM that was on back order from someone else, a waterbox, JBJ ect?