Durso & drain,return question

[Mstanker]

Alright so i went to my LFS an i brought up my drain and return. I'm doing this on a 40g breeder tank, He said for the drain you need 1.5 drain. The question I have is a 1.5 inch drain to much,also paired with a 1/2'' return. I know the drain will be pushing more water down, but I'm going to have valve on the drain/return lines. I have also made the return only 1 line, Thanks for the input.

 

[mfinn]

IMO, you can never ( within reason) have too large of a drain.
I guess it would also depend on what size the bulkhead is that's in the tank now.

 

[Mstanker]

The bulkheads are 3/4 bulkhead holes with threaded both sides. On drain I did a slip to 1.5 inch pipe. Should I do the same on the pipe that goes I to the sump or leave that pipe 3/4.

 

[mfinn]

Go with 3/4.

I usually made my durso stand pipes with a larger size pipe above the bulkhead fitting, but it was always only one size up.
In your case I would have only gone with a 1" durso.

 

[Mstanker]

Alright since the upper part is finish, should I do 1" pipe into sump or 3/4. An on the return the pump is a 700gph pump. It has a 1/2 inch piping up into the bulkhead am into the tank.

 

[mfinn]

Alright since the upper part is finish, should I do 1" pipe into sump or 3/4. An on the return the pump is a 700gph pump. It has a 1/2 inch piping up into the bulkhead am into the tank.

Yeah, 1" or 3/4" will be fine.

IMO, even with head loss, a 700 gph pump is too much for a 40.
But that's just me. I like a slower flow. Something in the range of 350gph for a 40.

 

[Mstanker]

Alright here its goes, the first step in starting my tank. I set the sump up with plumbing; nothing is a done deal on the piping just doing test runs. So i left the drain wide open and the return pipe is doin 700gph - the head pressure.

I need to get my loc line coming, on the loc line im thinking about doing the 1/2 going into the tank. The piping for the return is 1/2 hose to 3/4 pvc and then back to 1/2 loc line. What's you all input on that? I figure that I will be losing GPH because I changed the 1/2 return hose to 3/4, so i was thinking that if I went back to 1/2 on the final end that i could get that pressure back?
.

 

[mfinn]

The piping for the return is 1/2 hose to 3/4 pvc and then back to 1/2 loc line. What's you all input on that? I figure that I will be losing GPH because I changed the 1/2 return hose to 3/4, so i was thinking that if I went back to 1/2 on the final end that i could get that pressure back?
.

If the return hole/bulkhead fitting is 3/4", then I would go 3/4" all the way.
Is that a valve on the suction side of the pump?
If it is, remove it. It is not a good idea to restrict the suction side.
You would probably get more flow from the 3/4".

 

[Mstanker]

Well the LFS i went too told me that if i put a valve on the output side of the pump it could snap a fin on the propeller, not sure so i just wen with the input side with the valve. ?? They also said that i should not run a UV if i am going to grow corals and other things??

 

[mfinn]

Well the LFS i went too told me that if i put a valve on the output side of the pump it could snap a fin on the propeller, not sure so i just wen with the input side with the valve. ?? They also said that i should not run a UV if i am going to grow corals and other things??

Sometimes a lfs can give information that isn't real good.

I have seen arguments for using uv on reef tanks both for and against and it really is up to the individual.
I don't use uv.
Valve on the suction side of the pump for restricting flow,is not a good idea.
I have valves on all my pumps on the flow side. In my tank, none are for reducing the flow. Only for shutting off the water when the pump is off and needs cleaning or replacing.
Many people ( I should too) put a valve/union combo on the suction side of external pumps to remove the pump for the same.

 

[mfinn]

I don't want to seem critical, just trying to point out something.
I would have my return pump on the opposite end of the sump from the water coming from the display.
In the area where the water comes in, I would put a skimmer.

What's your plan for a skimmer?

 

[Mstanker]

In that sump there are 3 chambers the return is in the last stage. The Skimmer will be a octopus 110 is going in the spot on the left side just before the return.

 

[mfinn]

Ok, I see now.
So you have a area for incoming water, a skimmer area and then a return area.

I normally put my skimmer in the first area where the incoming water is, then a second area for a refugiums, then a return chamber.
But that's just one way, where there are many ways.

 

[ReeferEric]

I just did a quick skim, a typical set up for a reef ready system is usually 3/4" return and 1" drain.

Your drain is 1.5", overkill yes but since it's there already run it at as 1.5" all the way to the sump. There should be no valves on the drain at all unless you run two drains, one main and the other an emergency. Someday it will plug and then you'll have salt water on the floor.

The return which you said from what I understand is 1/2", can't do anything about that. Once you reduce the return, you can't get it back going to 3/4" and then back.

 

[mfinn]

The bulkheads are 3/4 bulkhead holes with threaded both sides.

Since the bulkhead is 3/4", you should make the return 3/4" all the way

 

[AZDesertRat]

Remove the valve and sponge/foam on the suction side of the return pump. This is harmful to the pump as it causes suction headloss which causes cavitation. Screw the valve on the discharge side of the pump then replace the 1/2" tubing with 3/4" to lessen headloss due to friction loss in the smaller diameter tubing due to high velocities in the 1/2".

Your drain and standpipe are huge overkill at 1.5", heck Iget about 800 GPH through a 1" Stockman standpipe and 1" overflow plumbing. I would use 1" on yours, eliminate the ball valve and if those are 90 degree elbows eliminate them and use 45 degree bends in their place to give you a smoother, more laminar and quiet flow from the display to the sump. The idea is to let the oveflow flow completely unrestricted and control the flow rate with the return pump.

Here is a very good primer on sumps and overflows and how they work.
Melevsreef.com | Acrylic Sumps & Refugiums
The only thing most of us diasagree on with Marc is his use of a tee and valve to bleed water back to the sump. This is very inefficient and actually harder on the pump and uses more power than installing the valve inline on the discharge side of the pump which adds head, lessens power consumption and often makes the pump more efficient.

 

[Mstanker]

Ya I can not make the drain a 1.5 all the way. It will not fit in The sump, I also tried to change those 90's to 45 but lowes did not have any threaded ones. So I just ordered the loc line today. Now it's time to hard plumb everything and drain my 75 gallon Fresh water. More pic coming soon

 

[The Flying Turkey]

Remove the valve and sponge/foam on the suction side of the return pump. This is harmful to the pump as it causes suction headloss which causes cavitation. Screw the valve on the discharge side of the pump then replace the 1/2" tubing with 3/4" to lessen headloss due to friction loss in the smaller diameter tubing due to high velocities in the 1/2".

Your drain and standpipe are huge overkill at 1.5", heck Iget about 800 GPH through a 1" Stockman standpipe and 1" overflow plumbing. I would use 1" on yours, eliminate the ball valve and if those are 90 degree elbows eliminate them and use 45 degree bends in their place to give you a smoother, more laminar and quiet flow from the display to the sump. The idea is to let the oveflow flow completely unrestricted and control the flow rate with the return pump.

Here is a very good primer on sumps and overflows and how they work.
Melevsreef.com | Acrylic Sumps & Refugiums

I use 1" silicone tubing from my bulkhead to the sump for unrestricted flow. The problem is the water falling into my sump from the tubing is very loud. The tubing stops about 2" above the water line in the sump and allows the water to fall onto filter floss. What do you think I can do to quiet this down?

Oh, and I'm also getting a loud sound coming from the small hole in the top of my Durso standpipe. Any ideas on how I can quiet that down too?