Dwarf angel harems- Odd or even numbers?

[Zionas]

If I want to get a harem of dwarf angels, would odd or even numbers be better if I introduce all as juveniles? My concern with even numbers is they’ll split into two pairs. Which one usually works? Thanks.

 

[Zionas]

My books by Kuiter and Scott W.Michael say that many species form both pairs and harems. For harems it can range anywhere from 3-4 up to 5-7 individuals. My concern is pas a certain number there will be too many females for one male to control, leading perhaps to the emergence of a dominant female changing to a male and the male isn’t dominant enough to have her change back. How much territory does one specimen approximately need?

 

[Daniel@R2R Verified Admin]

Interesting question! Following!

 

[Zionas]

Thanks!

 

[HK180]

I've seen pairs and trios successfully done before, but not 4+

 

[Zionas]

So in your opinion anything more than a trio and one’s likely to fail?

 

[Zionas]

If that’s the case I’ll do a trio and no more.

 

[nereefpat]

@OrionN , you still around?

 

[Zionas]

Thanks for helping out.

 

[HK180]

So in your opinion anything more than a trio and one’s likely to fail?

I've seen trios done successfully, but reviewing the threads it looks like you could do 3-5 in a large enough system:

I kept a trio of potters, a large male and two small females. The females occasionally bickered but it worked out.

I've mixed dwarf angels too and the key is 3+, the more you have the better. Also best to have 1 or 3+ of any one species, IME

You can easily introduce one (or more) juvenile or female Flame angels to a male Flame angel and get a pair or a harem. They wont fight unless the tank is tiny. The problem is when you put two males together. I always have harem of flame angels from 3-5 in my large DT at home. 320 (now) or 420 (20 years ago) gal DT.
Here is a video of my Flame angel pair in my 65 gal tank. It was too small for them so I moved them home. They were about to spawn but the tank is too small for them to properly do their pre-spawn routine.

 

[Zionas]

5 would be cool but my main concern is it would be too many females for one male to control, leading to the emergence of another male that will lead to fighting. I’m not sure if my fears are overblown over whether it’s that much of a concern. I have seen plenty succeed with 3 long term and the angels show regular spawning behavior.

 

[4FordFamily]

5 would be cool but my main concern is it would be too many females for one male to control, leading to the emergence of another male that will lead to fighting. I’m not sure if my fears are overblown over whether it’s that much of a concern. I have seen plenty succeed with 3 long term and the angels show regular spawning behavior.

I actually accidentally ordered several males, all very large. (I ordered XL and didn't compute that they'd ALL be male). I added them, some didn't make it due to disease but I have had 4 of them together for a couple of years now. One remained male, the others appear to have become female (see it in the fin shape and behavior). The more I had, the less they seemed to disagree with one another. I am glad my 4 get along with an extra Coral Beauty-- but it's a 500G system. They were in a 125 QT and did fine. This is a pretty worst-case scenario given all giant dominant males... whoops. But it (sort of) worked out (I lost about 5 or 6 if I recall but maybe one was aggression, the others were uronema).

 

[Zionas]

Nice! Glad your harem is thriving. Do they spawn regularly? I’m glad even numbers has worked out for you.

 

[Zionas]

Sort of different but does anyone successfully keep a trio of the “smaller” large angels? Genus like Chaetodontoplus, Pygoplites and Apolemichthys the books I have say they’re haremic. Species like the Regals, Goldflakes, Blue Lines, maybe Conspics. As far as I know Pomacanthus and Holacanthus usually form pairs.