Dwarf Seahorse birth defects?

[animateash]

Wanted to run this observation by folks here, to see if this is a known thing:

6wks ago I realized my dwarf seahorses were being poisoned by nitrates. They had been breeding so freely and I had been cautioned against doing big changes, lest someone spill his eggs, so I got a bit lax on the water change routine. When I realized what was going on, I transferred everyone out to a hospital tank with good water quality. The symptoms of the nitrate poisoning (twitching, itching, seizure like movement) ceased upon transfer.
In the past several weeks, I have had 4 males give birth. All conceived while in the new clean water, in the entirely separate tank. Only one male had a normal batch of fry--a small batch of 3. The others have all carried to term, 14 days on the dot, but the babies have come out half baked. The majority still have significant yolk sacs and can't swim yet. They end up in piles on the tank floor and I have to scoop them up and put them in a nursery.
Thankfully, some of these half bakes make it. If they can absorb the yolk and start swimming over the next 2 days, I know they are fine and can be turned loose. The survivors are not the majority though. Had another batch born today: 2 still born, 3 fully formed and good to go, and 3 who needed the nursery.

Is this recent batch of birth defects a lasting result of the nitrate poisoning the fathers (or mothers) suffered? Will it ever go away? I have a robust population but I'm wondering if I'll need to buy some new stock that wasn't subjected to the nitrates, to keep my numbers going.

Nutrition is very good, so I don't think that's the problem. They get enriched bbs and copepods (tig and tisbe) daily.

 

[El_Guapo13]

#reefsquad @Paulie069 @matchmakersmagic

 

[matchmakersmagic]

Those are interesting observations. High nitrate can cause problems but I've never heard of specifically birth defects. Usually it ends up in GBD and weakened immune systems which increases the risk of bacterial infection. Those symptoms you listed could also be parasitic in nature and hydriods come to mind when it comes to dwarfs.

Being that they arent fully formed I'd lean towards nutrition as #1 (which sounds fine in your case) or poor water quality. How long have they been in the new tank? 2-4 weeks? I'd give them more time in the clean environment before worrying too much about it being permanent. Even age can take a role in fry quality with younger leaner adults or juvies tending towards smaller/weaker fry.

Partially formed fry can be caused by early release as well. Perhaps they arent holding to term as pregnancies can be influenced by tank temps too.

 

[fishguy242]

hi sorry i cannot answer,but interested in all feed back,love my ponies,good luck

 

[fishguy242]

that is a person to listen to imo

 

[animateash]

Those are interesting observations. High nitrate can cause problems but I've never heard of specifically birth defects. Usually it ends up in GBD and weakened immune systems which increases the risk of bacterial infection. Those symptoms you listed could also be parasitic in nature and hydriods come to mind when it comes to dwarfs.

Being that they arent fully formed I'd lean towards nutrition as #1 (which sounds fine in your case) or poor water quality. How long have they been in the new tank? 2-4 weeks? I'd give them more time in the clean environment before worrying too much about it being permanent. Even age can take a role in fry quality with younger leaner adults or juvies tending towards smaller/weaker fry.

Partially formed fry can be caused by early release as well. Perhaps they arent holding to term as pregnancies can be influenced by tank temps too.

Yes, parasites and hydroids were what came to mind first for me too, so I ended up wasting time treating the tank for those before ultimately discovering the problem right in front of my face! I lost a lot of fry before finally just pulling everyone out and discovering the high nitrates and that my carbon had also possibly maxed out.
Everyone has been in the temp tank Since Dec. 20th. I completely re-structured my filter with the direction of a really pro dwarf keeper in another forum, so I'm waiting for their real tank to get cycled again and safe. The hope is that after doing all this I can handle a much bigger bio load than my filter could before.

The young dad factor could be some of it. 2 of the dads in question were born in my tank and this would have been their first batch of fry ever. The other two were adults when i got them, so unsure of age/history. One had given birth to a successful batch with me before the tank-pocolypse.

I do keep very specific records of pregnancies and births on my calendar, so I definitely know these batches weren't super premature. All were born at the 13th or 14th day, but look less formed than that. I have 2 more pregnant right now, so I'll be interested to see if this pattern continues.

 

[matchmakersmagic]

Sounds like you've got it under control and I'm excited for you on the new filtration. I wanted to mention that while inbreeding in fish isnt as big a concern as with mammals it isnt a bad idea in the long term to consider fresh DNA brought into the breeding pool.

Might be a combination of environmental stress and in some cases youth as for the no-quite-cooked fry. I'm very interested to see how future batches turn out and I'll be following along to see updates.

 

[animateash]

Sounds like you've got it under control and I'm excited for you on the new filtration. I wanted to mention that while inbreeding in fish isnt as big a concern as with mammals it isnt a bad idea in the long term to consider fresh DNA brought into the breeding pool.

Might be a combination of environmental stress and in some cases youth as for the no-quite-cooked fry. I'm very interested to see how future batches turn out and I'll be following along to see updates.

I'll report back with how many make it out of today's batch.

I have been wondering how soon I need to worry about introducing new genes to the community. I've got maybe 25 adults, slightly more males than females, and 10-15 fry of undetermined gender. I have one male who is a power dad and undoubtedly the father of many tank mates. After the tank is recovered perhaps I'll look at ordering a small addition. I just HATE putting them through the mail and am pretty scarred by how badly UPS screwed it up the time before last. Can't seem to find any suppliers on the west coast to avoid them.

 

[Paulie069]

Yes, parasites and hydroids were what came to mind first for me too, so I ended up wasting time treating the tank for those before ultimately discovering the problem right in front of my face! I lost a lot of fry before finally just pulling everyone out and discovering the high nitrates and that my carbon had also possibly maxed out.
Everyone has been in the temp tank Since Dec. 20th. I completely re-structured my filter with the direction of a really pro dwarf keeper in another forum, so I'm waiting for their real tank to get cycled again and safe. The hope is that after doing all this I can handle a much bigger bio load than my filter could before.

The young dad factor could be some of it. 2 of the dads in question were born in my tank and this would have been their first batch of fry ever. The other two were adults when i got them, so unsure of age/history. One had given birth to a successful batch with me before the tank-pocolypse.

I do keep very specific records of pregnancies and births on my calendar, so I definitely know these batches weren't super premature. All were born at the 13th or 14th day, but look less formed than that. I have 2 more pregnant right now, so I'll be interested to see if this pattern continues.

Sounds like ur tank is rocking back n forth all the time with all those births. Lol haha. Just playing I would also reach out to @ rayjay he’s is a fountain of info and experience. MMM also knows her stuff as I find her very informative and extremely helpful, she has talked me thru a couple of situations and has taught me more ( with great explanation) than any book could. Good luck with your ponies

 

[Paulie069]

Sounds like you've got it under control and I'm excited for you on the new filtration. I wanted to mention that while inbreeding in fish isnt as big a concern as with mammals it isnt a bad idea in the long term to consider fresh DNA brought into the breeding pool.

Might be a combination of environmental stress and in some cases youth as for the no-quite-cooked fry. I'm very interested to see how future batches turn out and I'll be following along to see updates.

Unless u want a West Virginia tank haha

 

[matchmakersmagic]

I guess that would most likely depend on how related your adults were/are. I've seen people go pretty deep before bringing new blood in without negative effects on the seahorses.

I'd say you've got some time, although the little buggers dwarfs are, tend to come into sexual maturity alot sooner than their larger cousins. lol