Ecotech radion g5 knock off found!

[Tamberav]

I just think they are expensive is all. Used to paying sub 200 for chinese boxes. The kessil one is $115

but maybe it is identical entirely and justifies the cost of the app is usable.

 

[Crabby48]

Why would anyone support China and their crap clones. Just to hurt American companies and growth? And people wonder why the world is messed up.

 

[BZOFIQ]

Why would anyone support China and their crap clones. Just to hurt American companies and growth? And people wonder why the world is messed up.

Not supporting the fakes but most of the stuff is made in China anyway, you're supporting it either way.

 

[Shooter6]

I just think they are expensive is all. Used to paying sub 200 for chinese boxes. The kessil one is $115

but maybe it is identical entirely and justifies the cost of the app is usable.

Does the kessil ( real and copy) cover the same area as an xr30g5 pro?

The black box lights I use cover a larger area then an xr30 g5 pro, but they are about 375-400 each.
These are the x200 superblue layout.
The x300 has 96 leds.

 

[Crabby48]

Not supporting the fakes but most of the stuff is made in China anyway, you're supporting it either way.

Buy China stuff and buying clones is two different things.

 

[Tamberav]

Does the kessil ( real and copy) cover the same area as an xr30g5 pro?

The black box lights I use cover a larger area then an xr30 g5 pro, but they are about 375-400 each.
These are the x200 superblue layout.
The x300 has 96 leds.

Well you could buy two kessil knockoff or one noop? and cover the same area and still be a lot cheaper. The price just seems like a lot but maybe it has the same quality components as a radion and driving up the price above traditional chinese lights. Have to open it up to see. I sort of hope it does. If not.. it is just a black box in better packaging, no?

 

[Shooter6]

Why would anyone support China and their crap clones. Just to hurt American companies and growth? And people wonder why the world is messed up.

99% of the stuff sold under American and European companies names is produced in China! So before you start with the supporting Chinese vs American companies, do a list of your property and research where each is actually manufactured.

I see it on the other side of the coin, if the choice is support a company who exported manufacturing to increase profit margins vs under cutting that company by buying from the same manufacturer as the one producing the item for that company, I will under cut that company.
If it happens enough the company will find its not profitable to export the manufacturing and quit exporting their intellectual property for higher profit margins.

 

[BZOFIQ]

Buy China stuff and buying clones is two different things.

There is a market for each...you decide whether it's fortunately or unfortunately.

 

[Shooter6]

Well you could buy two kessil knockoff or one noop? and cover the same area and still be a lot cheaper. The price just seems like a lot but maybe it has the same quality components as a radion and driving up the price above traditional chinese lights. Have to open it up to see. I sort of hope it does. If not.. it is just a black box in better packaging, no?

I see. Yes I agree that hopefully they are using better tech/app then base price blackbox lights.

The wifi app vipers I bought years ago were around 250.00 each. So the form factor alone is worth the price to me, if they work well.

I wasn't sure about the kessils and that's why I asked. The knockoff kessils are 130.00 each? So 260.00 to cover the same footprint right. And noops are 200.00 each so 400.00 to match the same footprint? And then you have the look of a single vs multiple fixtures..
Can add the redsea90 copy ( popbloom) leds those are 200.00 each as well.

 

[Shooter6]

Buy China stuff and buying clones is two different things.

Price markup for one lol, and the exported jobs is another....

 

[Crabby48]

99% of the stuff sold under American and European companies names is produced in China! So before you start with the supporting Chinese vs American companies, do a list of your property and research where each is actually manufactured.

I see it on the other side of the coin, if the choice is support a company who exported manufacturing to increase profit margins vs under cutting that company by buying from the same manufacturer as the one producing the item for that company, I will under cut that company.
If it happens enough the company will find its not profitable to export the manufacturing and quit exporting their intellectual property for higher profit margins.

There is a market for each...you decide whether it's fortunately or unfortunately.

Buying stuff manufactured other countries is one thing. I stayed clones. It’s different. Not derailing a thread to start stuff

 

[Tamberav]

Will the app work and be supported 5 years from now?

I kind of wish it just had a controller or something because I worry about that. I am not sure if that is a founded worry though? I have used a handful of chinese lights but never one with an app.

 

[Shooter6]

Will the app work and be supported 5 years from now?

I kind of wish it just had a controller or something because I worry about that. I am not sure if that is a founded worry though? I have used a handful of chinese lights but never one with an app.

My current lights are on a Chinese app, that has worked longer then I've delt with the company. I've been a customer for 5+ years.

Now I know there's controllers available, which could possibly be wired in to replace the Chinese one if it were to disappear, arduino I believe is the manufacturer.
That would increase the cost theoretically, but only if it became an issue that needed it to be installed.

I really don't see a reason why the app would disappear if they continue to install it on lights and sell them at a reasonable level. If anything I can see it becoming the common generic app for all chinese wifi lights, to include the reefbreeders.

 

[jda]

Jebao of lights, huh?

I have given up (kinda) trying to explain to people how patent stealing Chinese companies are bad for everybody and not even remotely the same as stuff made in china that respects IP, trademark and patents. Not even the same thing. It is easy to separate the two different kinds of companies. IMO, I guess that it is still worth writing all of this to catch the few that do care even though I will get a handful of PMs from unhappy people and probably some responses. Maybe I have just given up on US citizens caring about the principles of capitalism.

Some get it, which is good. Some don't and never will. Some do and don't care and make excuses about how prices from real companies are too much, china is china, companies deserve to have their stuff stolen, etc. Some get it and just want cheap stuff and at least have the guts to admit it. The truth is that before long, every US or EU person will know somebody who has had their lives impacted by Chinese patent theft, if they have not already, and then they will truly get it when jobs get lost, pensions, etc.

It amazes me that people love capitalism so much yet do not do more to defend this key principle of it. Sharing of IP for everybody, including theft if necessary, is very much a Marxist idea. ...probably not the place to discuss this, so just mentioning it.

I am particularly sensitive since we almost lost our company to Chinese patent theft, but we got lucky... it was almost 100 million dollars of jobs, pensions, IP, equity, etc. that could have been down the drain in a heartbeat. We were not greedy. We did not send anything to China for manufacture and used 100% USA everything. 100%. The Chinese IP theft does not stop with just stuff manufactured there and most people don't understand this. When you support it in any form, you support all of it. If you know anybody who owns their own company who makes things, ask them if they are scared of this - they all are. A local who owns a molding company had their design for some medical equipment parts stolen even though they make everything in Colorado with US made equipment (most in house)... luckily for them, none of the assemblers would buy the Chinese stuff, so they got lucky too... kinda. It cost them many hundred thousand dollars to just make sure that people knew what was happening - everybody hurt in the short term.

If anybody cares and wants to know how to tell, it is kinda easy. Products that have an actual US or EU presence are usually legit - not 100%, but a decent rule of thumb. I am not talking about "ships from US warehouse" on the box or advert, but an actual storefront or office. This way, a company whose IP has been stolen can file a lawsuit to defend their investment, if they choose to. ...so like Harbor Freight that has tools made in China can be challenged in court if their stuff violates IP and patents of other tool companies where as Jebao cannot since they have nothing in the US or EU.

I would be happy if people who wanted to buy Chinese lights at least did not buy the ones that look like they stole American or EU patents.

Sorry for the rant and this is all that I will post on this thread about this...

 

[Shooter6]

Jebao of lights, huh?

I have given up (kinda) trying to explain to people how patent stealing Chinese companies are bad for everybody and not even remotely the same as stuff made in china that respects IP, trademark and patents. Not even the same thing. It is easy to separate the two different kinds of companies. IMO, I guess that it is still worth writing all of this to catch the few that do care even though I will get a handful of PMs from unhappy people and probably some responses. Maybe I have just given up on US citizens caring about the principles of capitalism.

Some get it, which is good. Some don't and never will. Some do and don't care and make excuses about how prices from real companies are too much, china is china, companies deserve to have their stuff stolen, etc. Some get it and just want cheap stuff and at least have the guts to admit it. The truth is that before long, every US or EU person will know somebody who has had their lives impacted by Chinese patent theft, if they have not already, and then they will truly get it when jobs get lost, pensions, etc.

It amazes me that people love capitalism so much yet do not do more to defend this key principle of it. Sharing of IP for everybody, including theft if necessary, is very much a Marxist idea. ...probably not the place to discuss this, so just mentioning it.

I am particularly sensitive since we almost lost our company to Chinese patent theft, but we got lucky... it was almost 100 million dollars of jobs, pensions, IP, equity, etc. that could have been down the drain in a heartbeat. We were not greedy. We did not send anything to China for manufacture and used 100% USA everything. 100%. The Chinese IP theft does not stop with just stuff manufactured there and most people don't understand this. When you support it in any form, you support all of it. If you know anybody who owns their own company who makes things, ask them if they are scared of this - they all are. A local who owns a molding company had their design for some medical equipment parts stolen even though they make everything in Colorado with US made equipment (most in house)... luckily for them, none of the assemblers would buy the Chinese stuff, so they got lucky too... kinda. It cost them many hundred thousand dollars to just make sure that people knew what was happening - everybody hurt in the short term.

If anybody cares and wants to know how to tell, it is kinda easy. Products that have an actual US or EU presence are usually legit - not 100%, but a decent rule of thumb. I am not talking about "ships from US warehouse" on the box or advert, but an actual storefront or office. This way, a company whose IP has been stolen can file a lawsuit to defend their investment, if they choose to. ...so like Harbor Freight that has tools made in China can be challenged in court if their stuff violates IP and patents of other tool companies where as Jebao cannot since they have nothing in the US or EU.

I would be happy if people who wanted to buy Chinese lights at least did not buy the ones that look like they stole American or EU patents.

Sorry for the rant and this is all that I will post on this thread about this...

I dont think you get my point on that subject, or don't care to.
Company A, designs a product, produces a product, creating jobs in America, and sells the product at a premium.
Company B designs a product, exports those designs to China for manufacturing to increase profits, and sells at a premium.

Chinese company steals company A designs sells copies undercutting company A
I DO NOT SUPPORT

Chinese company takes the intellectual information given to them by company B, produces a copy and sells for less.

I SUPPORT IN A WAY, AS I FEEL COMPANY B GOT WHAT THEY DESERVE! Their pact with the devil for increased profits burned them and they did it to themselves.

Do you understand the difference? Greed I do not support, exporting jobs I do not support, I find the exporting of jobs disgusting and any company who does that gets zero sympathy from me if they get counterfeited by the same people they exported those jobs to for profits.

If your company is guilty of that then they deserve to fail as well

 

[Jon's Reef]

99% of the stuff sold under American and European companies names is produced in China! So before you start with the supporting Chinese vs American companies, do a list of your property and research where each is actually manufactured.

I see it on the other side of the coin, if the choice is support a company who exported manufacturing to increase profit margins vs under cutting that company by buying from the same manufacturer as the one producing the item for that company, I will under cut that company.
If it happens enough the company will find its not profitable to export the manufacturing and quit exporting their intellectual property for higher profit margins.

But you are just full of lies.... Here is the XR30 LED board being produced in Pennsylvania (Full video: ):

This is the rack with the individual electronic components (including LEDs):

Here are the chip placement and resolder machine:

Here is another video from their old facility. Note Tim states "We bring components in from all over the world and combine them with pieces made here into the final products"

What is your agenda here? Why do you continue to try to push this idea that they have outsourced the production. Where is your evidence of this?

Also, the discount price on high quality LEDs is $2-$4 per led. That is if you are buying full reels of 500-1000 LEDs. This is not unique to the Aquarium market. Architectural LEDs are also very expensive because they need the exact same color every time (imagine a row of 100 LEDs in a lobby and half of them have slightly different color).

 

[Shooter6]

What lies? I have not made a single statement that isn't true. I said possibly, probably ect. I never said definitely did I? I asked questions about the boxing and light. The blurry picture of the light says assembled in p.a. not made , RIGHT? So where are the parts used for ASSEMBLY being PRODUCED?
In the vid I see ASSEMBLY LINES not MANUFACTURING LINES! And how old is that video?
Is that been filmed since the takeover.?

 

[Koh23]

Well, actualy, jebao DO have their lights..

Search for AL-90, AL-150, or AK-70...

Regarding popbloom rs90, they are hardly copy of red sea, i'd say "red sea inspired" rather than copy....

They look similar, and share same principle, close spaced leds under recessed single lens, and share that "reef spec" layout of blues under one strong channel, but.... Hardly a copy....

And yes, cheaper than red sea, but not that cheap.....

 

[jda]

I dont think you get my point on that subject, or don't care to.
Company A, designs a product, produces a product, creating jobs in America, and sells the product at a premium.
Company B designs a product, exports those designs to China for manufacturing to increase profits, and sells at a premium.

Chinese company steals company A designs sells copies undercutting company A
I DO NOT SUPPORT

Chinese company takes the intellectual information given to them by company B, produces a copy and sells for less.

I SUPPORT IN A WAY, AS I FEEL COMPANY B GOT WHAT THEY DESERVE! Their pact with the devil for increased profits burned them and they did it to themselves.

Do you understand the difference? Greed I do not support, exporting jobs I do not support, I find the exporting of jobs disgusting and any company who does that gets zero sympathy from me if they get counterfeited by the same people they exported those jobs to for profits.

If your company is guilty of that then they deserve to fail as well

I do get it. There was a day when I would have agreed, but now that I know what I know, it is not the way that it works...

Your desire for company B to be hurt actually hurts A more. Nobody is immune from this and company A has more US and EU jobs and stuff to go bye bye when the Chinese theft companies don't stop at company B. The only way to help company A is to 1). buy from A, 2). not buy from B, and 3). especially not to buy the B knockoffs.

Just as an example in this hobby... Tunze never had things made in China, but they were one of the first to have EU and US IP stolen. Maybe Tunze does now, but I hope not. They might have been forced to by losing so much to the theft.

Not caring about company B losing profits starts a vicious cycle any time that a IP theft knockoff is purchased for any reason. Often, company A has to become company B just to stay in business - they already dealt with the competition from company B but now are losing out to IP theft and they cannot overcome. There is no excuse for it on any level. The best one might just "I want a cheap light or pump" since at least it is honest.

 

[Jon's Reef]

What lies? I have not made a single statement that isn't true. I said possibly, probably ect. I never said definitely did I? I asked questions about the boxing and light. The blurry picture of the light says assembled in p.a. not made , RIGHT? So where are the parts used for ASSEMBLY being PRODUCED?
In the vid I see ASSEMBLY LINES not MANUFACTURING LINES! And how old is that video?
Is that been filmed since the takeover.?

Again the stuff wasn't stolen, instead another U.S company exported their manufacturing to China, to increase profits. And China used that intellectual data to produce not just the real products parts but also a copy, selling it for what is a reasonable price.

My opinion is they got what they deserved. Had they kept the manufacturing, of the entire product in the U.S., kept the jobs here, then there wouldn't be a copy out there under selling theirs!!

They did not export their production. Nothing has changed. For some reason you seem compelled to make things up and spread them as fact.

Do you expect that they would bring in plastic beads and do the plastic injection molding in house? They would have metal extrusion equipment and make the heat sink? They would be making their own LEDs, resistors, transistors and logic chips? That is not how products are made. Each part comes from a variety of vendors around the world.

The vortech video is from 3 years ago in their old building. The WWC video was posted 8 months ago and shows the new facility that they built to support increased production.

Still waiting on one piece of evidence suggesting that the shown production no longer occurs in the US and that Ecotech has reduced the number of jobs at their now bigger facility.