Electrical question

[BriansBrain]

My tank runs a dedicated 20amp circuit. Breaker, line, GFCI outlets. My display runs of of one outlet which consist of two Neptune EB832 (pictures). The picture taken was when the heaters are on so that will be it’s max draw +\-

My issue is the GFCI for my display has tripped twice. Once when I turned on my DC skimmer pump when it was off about a week ago. The second was today and nearly catastrophic. Neptune heartbeat saved my tanks life and I was able to make a phone call to reset the outlet while I was away at work.

No visible signs of water marks or drips. Truthfully it’s not in an ideal place but my filter sock chamber has a lid so there’s no obvious splashing. The receptacle is about 3-4” behind the stand. Any ideas? Or could it just be a faulty GFCI? Installed about a year ago

 

[ReeferLou]

I was always surprised how the salt migrates thru the air. I enclosed my sump area just for this reason on my new setup to protect my wall and outlets. Is there any salt film on that outlet?

 

[BriansBrain]

I was always surprised how the salt migrates thru the air. I enclosed my sump area just for this reason on my new setup to protect my wall and outlets. Is there any salt film on that outlet?

I just ran my hand all around the outlet and did not see any creep on my hand. But that’s not to say it’s not

 

[zalick]

GFCI can fail over time. You also may have a faulty piece of equipment tripping it. Is the GFCI old?

At the suggest of @Brew12 I no longer run plug the EB8 to a GFCI but rather have GFCI "breakout" boxes so each heater etc. is on its own GFCI and that is then plugged in to the EB8. Here is an example: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/uv-keeps-tripping-gfci.679977/post-6936745

 

[BriansBrain]

GFCI can fail over time. You also may have a faulty piece of equipment tripping it. Is the GFCI old?

At the suggest of @Brew12 I no longer run plug the EB8 to a GFCI but rather have GFCI "breakout" boxes so each heater etc. is on its own GFCI and that is then plugged in to the EB8. Here is an example: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/uv-keeps-tripping-gfci.679977/post-6936745

The GFCI is only about a year old. Maybe swap it out with a regular 20amp and build a little protective thing around it. I can’t have what happened today happen again. Thankfully someone was available to reset it. Talk about panic lol

 

[zalick]

The GFCI is only about a year old. Maybe swap it out with a regular 20amp and build a little protective thing around it. I can’t have what happened today happen again. Thankfully someone was available to reset it. Talk about panic lol

I think its unlikely to have a false trip. It seems likely you have something shorting. Some people run tanks without GFCI but I'm strongly against it for safety reasons.

How long has it been running on this GFCI?

You can also buy inline GFCI adapters. and you can plug your heaters and higher amp equipment in to those.

 

[BriansBrain]

I think its unlikely to have a false trip. It seems likely you have something shorting. Some people run tanks without GFCI but I'm strongly against it for safety reasons.

How long has it been running on this GFCI?

You can also buy inline GFCI adapters. and you can plug your heaters and higher amp equipment in to those.

It’s only been on this GFCI about a year. I’ll surely be looking into your suggestions. It’s just to risky to run my whole system on one GFCI. I do have another GFCI outlet three feet from that one still behind the tank. Unfortunately that’s on the same circuit as the refrigerator, but I could spread load the power and important equipment. Only thing is I don’t have space for a second return pump

 

[zalick]

t’s only been on this GFCI about a year. I’ll surely be looking into your suggestions. It’s just to risky to run my whole system on one GFCI. I do have another GFCI outlet three feet from that one still behind the tank. Unfortunately that’s on the same circuit as the refrigerator, but I could spread load the power and important equipment. Only thing is I don’t have space for a second return pump

Maybe @Brew12 can chime in with some other troubleshooting

 

[darinsmall86]

Gfci breakers have a way higher trip rating than the receptacles. For something like a tank it is way better to install a regular plug at the tank and a gfci breaker in the panel instead. Still get the protection but way less chance of nuisance trips.

 

[Brew12]

Maybe @Brew12 can chime in with some other troubleshooting

Thanks for the call out!

First, I want to make sure there is no confusion about this. A GFCI will not trip on high current. You can pull 100A+ on a 15A GFCI and the device shouldn't trip until it starts melting. The only thing that should trip a GFCI is if current is flowing somewhere it shouldn't.
That said, it is possible for high harmonics can cause a GFCI trip. It could be from the ballast of a T5 light or from a DC pump controller. Newer GFCI's have done a great job reducing these trips but not completely eliminating them.

Does this system have a ground probe installed?

 

[BriansBrain]

Thanks for the call out!

First, I want to make sure there is no confusion about this. A GFCI will not trip on high current. You can pull 100A+ on a 15A GFCI and the device shouldn't trip until it starts melting. The only thing that should trip a GFCI is if current is flowing somewhere it shouldn't.
That said, it is possible for high harmonics can cause a GFCI trip. It could be from the ballast of a T5 light or from a DC pump controller. Newer GFCI's have done a great job reducing these trips but not completely eliminating them.

Does this system have a ground probe installed?

Thank you for your reply. I read through the thread that @zalick provided and was helpful. My understanding of GFCI was not correct. I do not run t5, halides, but do have a pentair 25w sterilizer that I installed around December. That seemed to give the guy in that thread an issue.

About a week or two ago was the first time it tripped when I turned my DC skimmer pump on. The second was yesterday for an unknown reason. Not sure how I could narrow it down to a specifically since it doesn’t happen frequently. None the less this is not an issue I can live with.

I do not have a grounding probe. Could you recommend one for this application?

 

[rwreef]

I agree, with the ground probe install. You can find them cheap on Amazon.

 

[BriansBrain]

I would assume anywhere in the sump possibly near equipment would suffice for placement of a grounding probe?

 

[rwreef]

Anywhere in the water works. I keep mine in the sump and plugged into a GFCI protected circuit.

 

[BriansBrain]

Anywhere in the water works. I keep mine in the sump and plugged into a GFCI protected circuit.

I have one GFCI outlet for this tank, along with one outlet for a mixing station that is between the tank and breaker box on the one circuit. With that, my two plugs on the one outlet for my tank are taken with the Neptune energy bars. Could you plug the ground probe in one of the energy bars? Or would that not work?

 

[zalick]

I have one GFCI outlet for this tank, along with one outlet for a mixing station that is between the tank and breaker box on the one circuit. With that, my two plugs on the one outlet for my tank are taken with the Neptune energy bars. Could you plug the ground probe in one of the energy bars? Or would that not work?

As long as the outlet is on, it will work. The grounding probe simply provides a path to ground for any stray voltage. It doesn't matter which outlet provides the path to ground.

 

[rwreef]

As long as the outlet is on, it will work. The grounding probe simply provides a path to ground for any stray voltage. It doesn't matter which outlet provides the path to ground.

Agreed, the circuit should be GFCI protected. Any ground path on that circuit will work.

 

[BriansBrain]

Thanks everyone for your helpful advice and input. I’ll start by putting a grounding probe in. Hopefully it will solve my issue!

 

[zalick]

Thanks everyone for your helpful advice and input. I’ll start by putting a grounding probe in. Hopefully it will solve my issue!

Just remember this:

If there is a short in your system that is enough to hurt you, the grounding probe will direct that current to ground (instead of you) and the GFCI will trip. This is the design.

If you have a piece of equipment randomly causing the GFCI to trip, such as @Brew12 mentioned, the probe won't prevent this from happening and you'll still have the tripping issue.

For your piece of mind and the safety of your tank, diagnosis should continue to figure out why the GFCI is tripping.

Is it possible for you to run an extension cord to your return pump and put that on a separate GFCI circuit? If so, and it tripped that GFCI, then problem identified. You could do that for your UV too.

 

[Brew12]

As long as the outlet is on, it will work. The grounding probe simply provides a path to ground for any stray voltage. It doesn't matter which outlet provides the path to ground.

Just to correct this, the outlet does not need to be on. The ground prong is hardwired and does not turn on and off so for safety reasons I would leave the outlet "off".

If you have a piece of equipment randomly causing the GFCI to trip, such as @Brew12 mentioned, the probe won't prevent this from happening and you'll still have the tripping issue.

Exactly. What the ground probe will do is help determine if you have a failed piece of equipment or if the trip is due to a harmonic issue.
As an example, let's say you have a failing heater. In order for it to trip you would need to have both the heater turned on and heating, and a path to ground. These may not always occur at the same time making the cause of the GFCI trip hard to detect.
I should also have asked if you have titanium heaters with a 3 prong plug. If you have one of those it "should" be acting like a ground probe.