Embarrassing Cyano

[NS Mike D]

Well if you have the proper equipment for your system Chemiclean will do no harm. The key phrase is proper equipment. So many hobbyist skimp on equipment and it ends up costing them in the long haul.

While I mostly agree, I am not 100% convinced on the risk levels the product, but I didn't rule it out as I recommended to use it with caution. (the OP has a new tank which looks to be a low bioload, so I doubt an O2 drop and NH3 spike would result in a cycle that would crash the tank as some hobbyists following the directions have experienced);

My bigger issue is that it's a band aid step that is inviting bigger problems. I will qualify, that once the underlying problems are fixed and the cyano wont go away on its own, and after steps have been taken to remove existing mats from the tank, it can be useful to finish off the job. But as I posted, this will be a recurring problem if the lack of NO3 isn't fixed and with super low levels of both NO3 & PO4, there is a material risk of bigger problems.

 

[Katrina71]

Increase flow. Reduce nutrients. Wait it out. I would not use chemiclean.

 

[NS Mike D]

Increase flow. Reduce nutrients. Wait it out. I would not use chemiclean.

ugghh

sorry to single you out but this is a problem with a lot of responses in the cyano threads. Low nutrients can also cause problems we associate with high nutrient problems. This is likely the case in this for the OP (low to no NO3).

 

[Katrina71]

ugghh

sorry to single you out but this is a problem with a lot of responses in the cyano threads. Low nutrients can also cause problems we associate with high nutrient problems. This is likely the case in this for the OP (low to no NO3).

No problem. I didn't see that. I just wouldn't use chemiclean. Ever.

 

[MERKEY]

Are you running a sump or canister filter?

 

[NS Mike D]

No problem. I didn't see that. I just wouldn't use chemiclean. Ever.

There are so many posts recommending this as harmless miracle fix without regard to the underlying causes nor the general health of the tank. I understand what is does and when used right can be very effective. It's hard to argue with so many reefers who have used to with success. But I am also aware that simply following directions to a tee might could be the beginning of more problems.

appreciate you're letting me make a point with your post

 

[Aqua Man]

Does Chemiclean work? Yes, but IMO it is a bandaid.

OP, During your water change are you vacuuming the sand? Do you blow your rocks out occasionally?

 

[mitch91175]

ugghh

sorry to single you out but this is a problem with a lot of responses in the cyano threads. Low nutrients can also cause problems we associate with high nutrient problems. This is likely the case in this for the OP (low to no NO3).

Was thinking the same thing. He obviously has a nutrient imbalance. Reducing nutrients further will be more detrimental and he could end up with bryopsis which is even worse than Cyano. Both problems can be solved with balanced nutrients. Adding more bio load will help him definitely.

 

[Aqua Man]

Is 3 Tangs in a 75 a low bio load? Plus the 1 cube of brine a day? Not sure, that’s why I’m asking.

 

[mitch91175]

@Minnesota Mike I do have a suggestion for you. When taking advice from fellow hobbyists, first and foremost look at their system(s). If you look at their system(s) and it doesn't look much better than your own, take some of what is said/mentioned with a grain of salt and/or listen then do your own research.

So many give advice that haven't even had a successful system on their own or have been in the hobby for a year a feel like they are experts at everything. All hobbyists will experience what you are going through with your system. It is not uncommon to get cyano bacteria.

Me personally I've been in the hobby for over 20 years and have had numerous successful tanks keep all types of coral, etc. Things I personally have always kept on hand are Chemiclean and Fluconazole. Both of those have assisted me on numerous occasions when I have experience algae problem that I wanted to resolve before getting out of control. The key ingredient isn't to solely rely on any of them, but to identify the underlying problem that caused them. The approach has always been for me personally to get everything back on track, i.e. dKH/Cal/Mag/PO4/NO3. Once those were corrected, then I'd focus on what is either adding too much or subtracting too much depending on issue.

Too high PO4, you are either feeding to much, do not have a good tuned skimmer, etc. Too little PO4, you are either feeding too little, doing too may water changes, skimming way too much, etc.

Too high NO3, you are either feeding too much, have too much detritus/dead animals in the system decaying, too little water changes, etc. Too low you are exporting way too much or feeding way too little.

You have to find the sources of your problem and stop causing the problem. My issue had been PO4. I added new rock to my system and it was leeching PO4. I ran an LC drip on a couple occasions and monitored what I was feeding. Now I primarily feed my entire tank seaweed and on occasion I feed frozen and Reef Roids occasionally.

At the end of the day, you personally have to be more in tune with what is going on with your system and what your system can and cannot handle. We all can give you advice/suggestions, but when the rubber meets the road, you'd do best taking a step back and assessing what you are doing to contribute to the issues you have in your system. Usually we are the cause of what is going on with our tanks.

 

[mitch91175]

Is 3 Tangs in a 75 a low bio load? Plus the 1 cube of brine a day? Not sure, that’s why I’m asking.

Do you feed your tangs seaweed? As far as bioload are you having nutrient issues? Some will say that 3 tangs in a 75g is a problem, but that's up to you to determine. A single cube of brine a day really isn't much at all. The way I've determined bioload unfortunately is when I would put in more fish and nothing I tried will allow me to add more fish. So I'd stop adding fish cause either 1) the other fish were telling me they do not need any more tank mates, or 2) the new additions wouldn't survive long even with QT. Not saying do that, but you have to see how it all shakes out for your style of reefing.

 

[NS Mike D]

Is 3 Tangs in a 75 a low bio load? Plus the 1 cube of brine a day? Not sure, that’s why I’m asking.

depends on what you mean by bioload. I think I used that term in connection with chemiclean and being. new tank, but that was in the context of the microfauna and what can be expected from the expected die off as the products hits its targets. A mature tank will have more die off versus a new tank that is still a ways off from a diverse balanced microfauna. The threads I read with chemiclean tank crashes were mature tanks.


fwiw, it's my understanding that brine alone (unless it's baby brine with it's yolk sac) is noyt sufficient source of nutrients for fish, at least that is the warning with mandarins who feed on brine.


I really don't know what a high or low bioload is other what the tank can handle and remain stable. Nutrients going in and nutrients either being locked up or being removed.

 

[Aqua Man]

No Tangs, my tanks are small.

I am new to this site and will not give advice unless I have done it myself. At least once! Lol

We need more information from the OP

 

[NS Mike D]

I just saw another thread that is dealing with a fairly new tank with dinos after using chemiclean to treat cyano with no mention of NO3 and PO4 levels.

I'm certain my dino problem was due to reading the general belief that cyano is a high nutrient problem and then stripping my tank of whatever NO3 and PO4 was left only to have issue after issue, treatment after treatment until the dinos took over and won.

I believe the use of chemiclean in these situations generally does more harm than good and the initial success in killing the cyano creates a false sense of security - removing the focus on establishing a healthy diverse ecosytem that will provide a natural defense against problems.

 

[MERKEY]

@Minnesota Mike

Could you list what filtration you are using and can you give us a today's readings of all of your parameters.

Not just that the parameters are good or that they are in line but the actual numbers? This would help a lot with narrowing down the problem.

You really need to start testing for alk, cal and mag also.

 

[Reefman71]

My phosphate is barely detectable? .5 nitrates. Im still getting this? Is that even cyno?

 

[mitch91175]

My phosphate is barely detectable? .5 nitrates. Im still getting this? Is that even cyno?

1st and 3rd pics look like cyano, but the middle looks more like some type of fungus and/or zoa pox. Picture isnt too clear. You can dip the zoas in 3% peroxide or a iodine. You can do a search here on R2R for dipping zoas.

 

[fattiremike]

Cyano loves silicates. Do you have silicates in your source water? Do an ICP test.

 

[Daniel92481]

Also try increasing your flow. Bump it up 20%, along with cyano gravel vacuuming as much as you can with water changes. Reevaluate in 2 weeks.

Definitely invest in some quality testing kits too. Testing is paramount. Without it, we have no idea what the levels are. I use Hanna for phosphate and ALK, Aquaforest for Magnesium, Salifert for nitrate, and Red Sea for calcium.

 

[Tahoe61]

Some hobbyists use maintenance doses as do I.
Run a skimmer, remove what Cyano you can prior to treatment.
I would guess that hobbyist that had a bad out come either had too much die off, they did not manually remove what they could prior to treatment and insufficient oxygenation during treatment.