Endless ich

[Flame2hawk]

Over the last several months I have treated my 625g FOWLR tank for ich/velvet by using several different methods......Hyposalinity @1.008 for 45 days, Copper for 30 days at 1.75ppm and after that didn’t work, copper at 2.00ppm for 45 days. For good measure in case it was flukes, I dosed the tank with Prazi 3 times now. Have not added anything new to the tank at all and have no nothing else that can infect the tank. I am currently away but have someone watching over the fish and I have a video camera on 24 hours a day. I just observed on video that yellow tang is again scratching against the sand and rocks!! Other fish are flashing and darting. There still some prazi in there and under 1.00 ppm of copper as prophylactic. I am at witts end as have no idea what else to do as it looks like I’ve encountered a parasite mutation which is immune to hypo and copper even at 2.00ppm for 45 days. Suggestions and advise needed please. I have some beautiful angels and tangs which IK I m afraid may ultimately succumb to either the parasite or the medication frequency?

 

[4tanks]

Personally I'd just give them a constant stable environment and feed feed feed good quality fresh or frozen and use selcon keeping dropping salinty etc and adding this that and the other is stressful to an already stress induced parasite.

 

[K7BMG]

Flashing and scratching are the most common side effects of ICH for sure but not the only reason.
Can you see the presence of ICH on the fish with the naked eye?

I would recomend doing some research on what other possibilities could have this same side effects.
I often get fixated on one thing to find out it was something else all together.

 

[xxkenny90xx]

Personally I'd just give them a constant stable environment and feed feed feed good quality fresh or frozen and use selcon keeping dropping salinty etc and adding this that and the other is stressful to an already stress induced parasite.

I agree with this. With all those changes and medications I think you'll torture the fish to death or permanently damage them

 

[ddrueckh]

I’m in the same camp as others who suggested lots of good/healthy food and a stabile environment.

 

[Squidward]

Your last attempt would be TTM. That's the only method I did and have a 300g ich-free tank. I just don't like using copper/measuring copper or doing hypo.

 

[Flame2hawk]

Your last attempt would be TTM. That's the only method I did and have a 300g ich-free tank. I just don't like using copper/measuring copper or doing hypo.

Thx but way too many large fish for TTM..

 

[Flame2hawk]

I know that it’s tempting to do nothing else except optimal water conditions and heavy feeding but I think that may result in slow death to them all....just cant let that happen...have to keep trying. I will give them a break from meds for a while but eventually they will succumb if nothing is done. They seem to tolerate hypo ok so will try that agin taking the salinity down slowly...

 

[bluprntguy]

If you treated with copper for 45 days and kept it at 2.0, there really shouldn’t be any ich. I think it’s likely that the fish are just irritated from the copper, hyposalinty, etc. I’d remove all the copper and see what happens. Keeping it at 1.0 isn’t doing anything ”therapeutic” anyway.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

That must be super-frustrating. If you aren't seeing ich spots, but the fish are flashing, I'd suspect flukes - however, hyposalinity almost always takes care of those (there are some brackish water flukes that survive hypo, but not sure how those could have gotten into your tank.

I wonder if it is time to do a skin biopsy? You can buy a cell phone microscope for around $15. You just catch up one of your affected fish, and do a skin scrape to see if you can find the parasite that you are dealing with.

One word about praziquantel - people talk about prazi resistant parasites, when actually what happens is a bacteria grows after you've dosed it a couple of times, and the bacteria eats prazi within hours of adding it to your tank, so it basically stops working!

Jay

 

[javisaman]

You might have prazi-resistant flukes. You could try fenbendazole. Though I'm not sure if it's tank safe or just for QT

 

[Flame2hawk]

Thx I treated food with fenbendozole for Weeks.....

 

[Jimmyneptune]

Apologies for all the questions
Have you had any losses?
How many fish do you have and what kind?
What do you feed them?
Do you have any parameters that you may have in the tank that you are not aware of? for example:
stray electrical -ground probe
Irritant from your RODI - local water issue
High carbon monoxide in your home new home or no fresh air
have you had a ICP test?

 

[Flame2hawk]

I lost a beautiful goldflake angel but never could get him to eat so unrelated. Also lost some anthias but they had bacterial ailment. Don’t think Ive had a loss from ich.
While my stocking is listed on other posts here it is again:

4 midnight ocellaris captive bred clownfish
3-ocellaris clownfish
1-lightening maroon clown
1-flurry clown
2-mocha chocolate clowns
2 Flame hawk’s
1-or. Diamond watchman gobies-
1-cleaner wrasse
1-bluethroat trigger

1-Flame angel
1-coral beauty angel
1-scribble angel
1-emperor angel
1-queen angel
1-flagfin angel

1-blue hippo tang
1-blond naso
1-Purple Tang
1-Yellow tang
1-Gem tang

2- Lyretail Anthias

Total 29 fish, adult size inches of 185. With 625 gallons of water after displacement it equals 3.4 gallons per adult inch. They are not anywhere close to adult sizes yet. The biggest fish in tank are the blond naso at 8 inches and queen angel at 7 inches. Most other tangs and angels are in the 5 /6 inch range except the dwarf angels of course.

They are all fed healthy diet of froze mysis, brime, angel formula, TDo pellets, extreme select pellets and daily fresh seaweed from refugium and dried nori sheets.

All the rest of your questions are negative as all tested, monitored and discarded as issues.

While I appreciate the questions, be aware that I am a very experienced aquarists and this tank is a 625g monster tank. With that said, any thoughts welcomed...

ALSO AS AN UPDATE>>>THE FISH ARE SCRATCHING LESS OVER THE LAST 2 days. I have one fish which has been flashing for some time and that the gem tang. He seems to really start acting up when the lights come on. He goes back and forth along the bottom of the glass and charges the glass as if he sees his reflection and wants to attack it. He does this to exhaustion noe for the last 2 weeks. Crazy...

 

[Jimmyneptune]

Gotcha.
By the way your tank is beautiful.
Glad things are better.
Maybe a slower ramp of your lights will help the gem.

 

[DSEKULA]

Sounds like those fish have been through a lot. Im absolutely no expert but do put my fish through copper and parzipro quarantine treatment and ensure eating, observation, and more specific treatment for secondary infection etc. I have personally noticed things like flashing or odd swimming after treatments that cleared up with a little wait and the fish have had what seems to me to be healthy tank life afterwards. Idk how true this is etc but i would think logically that an animal put through stressful treatment that maybe had some sort of ailments would at times have some side effects to the various treatments we put them through. Anyway, thats just my 2cents but i absolutely agree with giving them a break at least at this point before moving forward. Personally i wouldn't assume its ich unless you see it.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Any pics of the fish ? Wonder as Jay said flukes or even viral.

 

[Flame2hawk]

I lost a beautiful goldflake angel but never could get him to eat so unrelated. Also lost some anthias but they had bacterial ailment. Don’t think Ive had a loss from ich.
While my stocking is listed ion other posts here it is again:

4 midnight ocellaris captive bred clownfish
3-ocellaris clownfish
1-lightening maroon clown
1-flurry clown
2-mocha chocolate clowns
2 Flame hawk’s
1-or. Diamond watchman gobies-
1-cleaner wrasse
1-bluethroat trigger

1-Flame angel
1-coral beauty angel
1-scribble angel
1-emperor angel
1-queen angel
1-flagfin angel

1-blue hippo tang
1-blond naso
1-Purple Tang
1-Yellow tang
1-Gem tang

2- Lyretail Anthias

Gotcha.
By the way your tank is beautiful.
Glad things are better.
Maybe a slower ramp of your lights will help the gem.

thx for the suggestion ill give it a try...he seems to really be flipping out from what i think is his reflection as everyone else kind of looks at him like he’s nuts!

 

[Flame2hawk]

Any pics of the fish ? Wonder as Jay said flukes or even viral.

Right now I’m away until mid September. I’ve been observing via video that i set up 24/7 so can observe their behavior. The picture is not sharp enough to get good pics.

 

[Flame2hawk]

So just wanted to report that we can indeed still depend on copper. Strongly suggest using copper power at 2.00 to eradicated ich or velvet as it appears that 1.75ppm just didn’t do it. All is good after treating @2.00ppm for At least 30 days although I went to 45 days and removing over time the copper from water thru water changes and poly filter. The fish all look happy and are acting well for the last several days. I still have a gem who goes crazy chasing his own reflection but thats a personality disorder! LOL. THx