Epileds, Exotics leds. Good, bad, different?

[fredk]

I'm going through the process of choosing LED lighting for a tank and am trying to get a better idea of what various options mean.

I'm curious to know more about where these two manufacturers fit in the LED landscape.

 

[oreo54]

Hard to keep up w/ all the Asian companies..
Personally most that one can buy as a DIY Epileds are probably pretty low on the quality scale..

Doesn't maen they don't work or that Manuf that use them are horrible, just impossible to judge..

Point is Epiled, Bridgelux eggs can vary considerably by vendor, as well as the added chance of knockoffs..

LED factory runs are like a box of chocolates...

 

[Flippers4pups]

Epistar, bridelux...... They may say the brand they're selling, but it's nearly impossible to tell the difference.

Crap shoot.

I've bought "Epistars" for my mods on my Mars Aquas. Couldn't tell you if they are or not. Either way, they are still working.

 

[fredk]

...

LED factory runs are like a box of chocolates...

Ooooh, so if they don't work over my tank I can eat them and they will taste good? I'm in.

I'm familiar with the variability of batch production. Fakes are a concern even with tier 1 manufacturers.

The reason I'm asking is that Maxspect uses them and one of the alternatives is to use the RSX instead of DIY. It ticks a lot of boxes including spectrum and Mitras like reflectors for better light blending and distribution at a lower cost than the tier 1 manufacturers. If I go this route, I would like to know what I am giving up or risking.

Edit: Lets assume that Maxspect is buying top bin parts. How would that compare to what a company like Cree would offer?

 

[Ron Reefman]

Fred, I used to work for an led aquarium fixture company. The difference between cheap leds and top of the line leds is of almost zero importance when it comes to growing healthy coral. The Mars Aqua with cheap leds, the Reef Breeders with Cree leds or whatever the top of the line brands use, it really doesn't amount to anything as far as having healthy, growing coral, they all work and the difference is negligible. The difference is in the features, looks and controls, not the leds.

 

[fredk]

Hey Ron. Thanks for chiming in. I did not know you had experience on the business side of LEDs.

I've heard that some people had issues with pucks failing on the last gen Maxspect Razors. Hmm, just did a quick search and it looks like there was a cluster of issues back in 2016, at least some of it relating to over-driving the violet LEDs. I don't know if that is the whole story or if there is/was some other issue as well.

I also occasionally see posts from people with the cheap black box leds experiencing LED failures.

As BRS pointed out with the cheapest black boxes, they are not well designed. When you combine poor heatsinks with less efficient LEDs, you are bound to see issues.

Going back 4 or 5 years, I seem to remember that Epileds ran about 20% less efficient than Crees.

OK, this is a bit of a rambling post, but you get the idea. There are some LEDs I would definitely stay clear of.

Something like the Reefbreeders/Evergrow I would consider quality wise, but am not sure how the spread/shadowing is on them with the 90 degree lenses.

DIY is another possibility, but that's a whole other post.

 

[oreo54]

Well his point is still valid.. A few dead diodes or not or lower efficiency.. they still will "grow stuff"...
Back in the day output efficiency of Bridge/Epis were like 2 or 3 to one CREE..
But w/ 1 CREE costing $4-6 and a handful of Bridgelux costing less.. well you get the picture..

and again w/ manuf.. who knows what they get........
Pretty sure is a grade or 2 above the 10/$1 flea bay ones.
note also most are driven at 350-500mA so effectively 1 1/2 to 2W each..

Heat kills diodes and the more current the more heat..
Poorly designed fixtures w/ "quality" diodes will not last long either..
Then there are the drivers/power supplies.

It's a system and one can build a good system w/ cheap diodes..

Innards of a programmable Reefbreeders fixture:

 

[fredk]

Well his point is still valid.. A few dead diodes or not or lower efficiency.. they still will "grow stuff"...
Back in the day output efficiency of Bridge/Epis were like 2 or 3 to one CREE..

I'm not saying Ron is wrong. As I wrote in the first post, I'm trying to figure out what the trade offs of purchasing something like the Maxspect Razor given that it is using Epileds for the violets. From a little reading, UVs represent the lion's share of their business, 70%.

If their violet LEDs are really 1/3 of the efficiency of companies like Semileds, that is not a good thing. If they are lower power and you just need more, that's not a big deal.

Maxspect has a recent record of behavior/commitment with the launch of the Gyre and to me it is a good one. They have launched a market changing credible product and made the changes necessary post launch to make sure the product works as advertised.

Does that same commitment extend to the Razor? Going back to 2016 it sounds like they put violet LEDs on a blue channel and overdrive them. If their behavior is the same as with the Gyre, they have hopefully fixed that flaw and that is the only one they had. Hopefully is, however, not a good foundation for spending lots of $.

I know I'm asking questions that are not easily answered, but then, I like to ask questions like that.

 

[fredk]

Found some spec sheets for the epileds in question. They really are that inefficient. Something to consider.