Epsom salt

GoldeneyeRet · Dec 27, 2018

I see epsom salts frequently recommended here on r2r as a treatment for swelling in marine fish.

Could anyone shed some light on how that could be effective?

Epsom salts are magnesium and sulphate, both of which are usually plentiful in marine aquaria. At the dosages I see recommended epsom salts would have little, if any effect on those levels.

Furthermore, I have failed to find any evidence that epsom salts provide any anti inflamatory effect in any setting.

To those of you that recommend using epsom salts for treatment of marine fish, please tell me what I am failing to see.

Thanks

Humblefish · Dec 27, 2018

It's anti-inflammatory effect is purely anecdotal. I'll look in Noga's book tomorrow to see what I can find.

However, I have been doing research lately about it being used as a possible treatment for internal parasites:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4502860/

https://www.int-res.com/abstracts/dao/v38/n1/p47-52/

EmdeReef · Dec 28, 2018

+1

If I recall correctly, it's been used to treat spironucleosis and similar - added to the fish feed.

GoldeneyeRet · Dec 28, 2018

I could see a possibility of effectiveness as an oral treatment, though thats not something I have seen recommended on r2r , at least not often.

Thanks for the replies. My copy of Nogas Fish Disease was lost to a flood a while back, I really should replace it!

Humblefish · Dec 28, 2018

GoldeneyeRet said:
I could see a possibility of effectiveness as an oral treatment, though thats not something I have seen recommended on r2r , at least not often.

Thanks for the replies. My copy of Nogas Fish Disease was lost to a flood a while back, I really should replace it!

I can't really explain the logic behind it, for reasons you've pointed out. I just know sometimes a fish gets an eye injury, and 1 tablespoon of Epsom salt per 5 gals seems to do the trick. Maybe there's some impurity found in Epsom salt?!

Kind of like why does Tech M (which is just liquid magnesium chloride) eradicate bryopsis?

GoldeneyeRet · Dec 28, 2018

I get the analogy to tech M (which I've used on bryopsis), but if it was an impurity we would expect to see inconsistent results across brands, grades and lot numbers of product.

I'm not arguing it is ineffective, just wondering how it could be effective.

For the record, I've never used it as an anti-inflamatory and I dont ever completely discount anecdotal evidence.

Anyway, I should probably quit staring at my qt tanks and go to bed before any other random questions pop into my head.

Goodnight all

Humblefish · Dec 28, 2018

GoldeneyeRet said:
I get the analogy to tech M (which I've used on bryopsis), but if it was an impurity we would expect to see inconsistent results across brands, grades and lot numbers of product.

I'm not arguing it is ineffective, just wondering how it could be effective.

For the record, I've never used it as an anti-inflamatory and I dont ever completely discount anecdotal evidence.

Anyway, I should probably quit staring at my qt tanks and go to bed before any other random questions pop into my head.

Goodnight all

Another anecdotal for ya: Erythromycin is not effective for most common aquatic diseases, especially in saltwater aquariums. But for stupid wrasses that like to jump & bang into things, it's usually the only ABX I can get to clear their eye infections. NFG, Spectrogram, sulfa drugs, neomycin, etc. do nothing for that.

GoldeneyeRet · Dec 28, 2018

I have succesfully used erythromycin for years on eye infections, and agree it works well for that, but nothing else.

Agree wrasses are stoopid as well lol

UncleSalty · Dec 28, 2018

Humblefish said:
I can't really explain the logic behind it, for reasons you've pointed out. I just know sometimes a fish gets an eye injury, and 1 tablespoon of Epsom salt per 5 gals seems to do the trick. Maybe there's some impurity found in Epsom salt?! Kind of like why does Tech M (which is just liquid magnesium chloride) eradicate bryopsis?

My Goldflake Angelfish developed an eye issue recently. It stayed for over a week before I decided that it wasn't going to fix itself and I should figure something out. I dosed Epsom Salt and the problem fixed itself within 3 days.

Maritimer · Dec 29, 2018

Similar results with an orange-back wrasse.

<shrugs>

Don't know whether it's anecdotal or placebo effect ... but it works well enough, often enough to keep it out there.

~Bruce

Salt_Creep · Jul 24, 2020

Sorry for resurrecting the dead here but, I have a fish with popeye. One side and not cloudy. Do you dose the epsom directly to the DT or should I try to catch him and set up a QT to dose with epsom?

yumma · Oct 20, 2020

UncleSalty said:
My Goldflake Angelfish developed an eye issue recently. It stayed for over a week before I decided that it wasn't going to fix itself and I should figure something out. I dosed Epsom Salt and the problem fixed itself within 3 days.

hi you dosed epson salt everyday?

Superlightman · Jan 10, 2021

Hello i have an anthias that have swollen eyes since two week, just one the other not,can’t catch him .1 table spoon for 5 gallons, i would need to put approximately 25 for my tank. Will this not raise my magnesium level tremendously? Will I have side effects for the fishes and corals?

Paul B · Jan 10, 2021

There is so much magnesium already in seawater that I think it is superfluous.

I dump an entire box of the stuff into my tank every 6 months just to supplement magnesium.
(after I soak my feet in it of course)

But not for anything else

Jay Hemdal · Jan 10, 2021

Paul B said:
There is so much magnesium already in seawater that I think it is superfluous.

I dump an entire box of the stuff into my tank every 6 months just to supplement magnesium.
(after I soak my feet in it of course)
But not for anything else

Paul,

Thanks for posting that. I've been fighting this "adding a little Epsom salts to my tank" thing since I started on R2R.
Magnesium sulfate is the fourth largest component in salt mixes. Adding "a little bit more" has the same effect as raising your specific gravity by half a point.

Many aquarium issues resolve themselves. When people add Epsom salts and the fish gets better, they think it helped. If they add it and the fish dies, they think they didn't dose it soon enough (grin).

Adding Epsom salts to the food at 3% has some apparent benefit in helping to expel Hexamita/Spironucleous from the gut.

It does of course have a long history of being used in FW tanks, especially with fancy goldfish.

Jay

Jay Hemdal · Jan 10, 2021

Superlightman said:
Hello i have an anthias that have swollen eyes since two week, just one the other not,can’t catch him .1 table spoon for 5 gallons, i would need to put approximately 25 for my tank. Will this not raise my magnesium level tremendously? Will I have side effects for the fishes and corals?

Hello,

Skip the Epsom salts, that won't hurt but it also won't help at all. Can you post a picture of the anthias so we can see how bad the issue is?

Here is a link to an article I wrote on fish eye issues: https://reefs.com/magazine/aquarium-fish-the-eyes-have-it-a-review-of-eye-health-in-aquarium-fishes/

Jay

Paul B · Jan 10, 2021

Thanks Jay. I am also surprised people want to add a little Epsom salts. It's like adding a tablespoon of fresh water to your tank in case the fish are thirsty.

About it helping fish disease it's the same thing. People add Epsom Salt, kerosene, red pepper, carburetor cleaner or "Brillo Pads" and the fish gets better and that rumor spreads. Then so many people believe it that there is a shortage of Brillo pads in the supermarket and we have to clean pots with sand paper.

Algae also. There are more nusience algae remedies than there are types of algae. None of them work but it doesn't matter.

OK I'm done. I am now going to put cleaner shrimp in my tank to eat velvet parasites on my baby Manta Ray ;Meh

Superlightman · Jan 10, 2021

Difficult too take a picture he is bidding under a stone ,but his eyes are an half cm big and outside now! He is also weak and the bib problem is that an other anthias all time attack him since he is weaker

Jay Hemdal · Jan 10, 2021

Superlightman said:
Difficult too take a picture he is bidding under a stone ,but his eyes are an half cm big and outside now! He is also weak and the bib problem is that an other anthias all time attack him since he is weaker

I’m afraid there isn’t much you can do unless you can isolate it to a treatment tank. You can search Google for - Hemdal the eyes have it - should link you to an article I wrote on fish eye diseases.
Jay