Established Reef Dying and cant find the Answer, HELP!

Alabamareef

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Epuipment/Inhabitants: 4 year old reef. Moved it almost two years ago. SPS and LPS. Heavy fish. Vertex Illumina 1500/260 lighting. 2 MP40’s and 2 Tunze 6105’s. Most SPS are acros. Some stylos and monties. Estamitaed 150lb of live rock with sand substrate about 2 inches. Heavy clean up crew. Was using 2 part and changed to Ca reactor and Kalk stirrer. All controlled with apex. Sump with micro. Reef Octopus skimmer. Carbon and GFO reactor. Bio pellet reactor. ATO system.
History: Well established. Showing great growth but color not so good. I started using some additives. One was iron and it said if I see hair algae to make a water change and stop using. I did stop and did a water change after a few days. But it seemed the hair algae started to take off. At the time my P04 was around 3-5. Nitrates 0 and Ca was 450 and Alk at 8.3dkh. I saw what I thought was cyao and thought this may be causing my lack of color. I used chem clean before and thought this may be my answer. Right after I used chem clean my corals started looking bad and all has went downhill from that point.
After a few weeks I made a change from 2 part to a Ca reactor. Did not really notice much change. I also turned off the bio pellet reactor thinking I may be stripping the system. After a little time I started to notice some corals turning color and no polyp extension. I thought maybe my light was to strong and turned it down. Later I noticed a problem with my light. It had a programming problem and was turning itself on at night. I also had my moon light to bright. After fixing the programing and turning down my light I took out all the dead acros. No bugs on the acros. They would turn white at the base and it would work its way up. It appears on one large colony with super glue I did stop the tissue death.
So now the corals are still stressed but my light is working properly. All levels are stable, confirmed with aquariumwatertesting.com. I sent off water to be tested because that’s where I thought my problem may be but all is well. So now I’m looking at my 180gallon reef wasting away with still no answers. I’ve been trying to rid my tank of the hair algae with weekly water changes, 45 gallons and getting out as much as I could. Finally I hired a friend that cleans tanks for a living. He cleaned the tank and got out most all hair algae. We sat down to eat dinner and when we went back to the tank several fish were dead. 8 fish in total died. The crazy thing is we were just bragging how good all the fish looked. And it was the expensive fish not the little inexpensive ones. I really hate that my animals have suffered and I can’t find the reasons.
It seems there were a lot of things that happened over this three month time period. I also have made to many changes. But I’m trying to find the root cause. I’ve still got some coral living but it’s not looking its best. My anemones are doing well. And I’ve got some coral dying. My good friend has suggested we empty the tank and take out the sand, thinking a nitrogen pocket caused the death of the fish, and scrub the rock of the hair algae and put in a new sand substrate. He also suggested maybe not using any old water, starting new. I’m worried if I do this my current animals, mainly the anemones, will not do well. Just want some other opinions or suggestions. Thanks for reading
 
Ammonia (NH3-4)

[TD="colspan: 3"]09-27-2013 - Alabama Reef - 1 of 1 BRN IRN[/TD]

[TD="width: 80px"]Good[/TD]
[TD="width: 80px"]0[/TD]
[TD="width: 200px"]0.000 - 0.050 mg/L[/TD]

[TD="width: 150px"]Nitrite (NO2)[/TD]
[TD="width: 80px"]Good[/TD]
[TD="width: 80px"]0.005[/TD]
[TD="width: 200px"]0.000 - 0.100 mg/L[/TD]

[TD="width: 150px"]Phosphate (PO4)[/TD]
[TD="width: 80px"]Good[/TD]
[TD="width: 80px"]0[/TD]
[TD="width: 200px"]0.000 - 0.250 mg/L[/TD]

[TD="width: 150px"]Nitrate (NO3)[/TD]
[TD="width: 80px"]Good[/TD]
[TD="width: 80px"]0.9[/TD]
[TD="width: 200px"]0.000 - 25.000 mg/L[/TD]

[TD="width: 150px"]Silica (Sio2-3)[/TD]
[TD="width: 80px"]Good[/TD]
[TD="width: 80px"]0.1[/TD]
[TD="width: 200px"]0.000 - 0.500 mg/L[/TD]

[TD="width: 150px"]Potassium (K)[/TD]
[TD="width: 80px"]Low[/TD]
[TD="width: 80px"]312[/TD]
[TD="width: 200px"]350.000 - 450.000 mg/L[/TD]

[TD="width: 150px"]Ionic Calcium (Ca)[/TD]
[TD="width: 80px"]Good[/TD]
[TD="width: 80px"]129[/TD]
[TD="width: 200px"]100.000 - 300.000 mg/L[/TD]

[TD="width: 150px"]Boron (B)[/TD]
[TD="width: 80px"]Good[/TD]
[TD="width: 80px"]5.3[/TD]
[TD="width: 200px"]3.000 - 6.000 mg/L[/TD]

[TD="width: 150px"]Molybdenum (Mo)[/TD]
[TD="width: 80px"]High[/TD]
[TD="width: 80px"]0.2[/TD]
[TD="width: 200px"]0.000 - 0.120 mg/L[/TD]

[TD="width: 150px"]Strontium (Sr)[/TD]
[TD="width: 80px"]Good[/TD]
[TD="width: 80px"]7.2[/TD]
[TD="width: 200px"]5.000 - 12.000 mg/L[/TD]

[TD="width: 150px"]Magnesium (Mg)[/TD]
[TD="width: 80px"]Good[/TD]
[TD="width: 80px"]1375[/TD]
[TD="width: 200px"]1100.000 - 1400.000 mg/L[/TD]

[TD="width: 150px"]Iodine (I)[/TD]
[TD="width: 80px"]Good[/TD]
[TD="width: 80px"]0.03[/TD]
[TD="width: 200px"]0.030 - 0.090 mg/L[/TD]

[TD="width: 150px"]Copper (Cu)[/TD]
[TD="width: 80px"]Good[/TD]
[TD="width: 80px"]0.02[/TD]
[TD="width: 200px"]0.000 - 0.030 mg/L[/TD]

[TD="width: 150px"]Alkalinity (meq/L)[/TD]
[TD="width: 80px"]Good[/TD]
[TD="width: 80px"]2.9[/TD]
[TD="width: 200px"]2.500 - 5.000 meq/L[/TD]

[TD="width: 150px"]Total Calcium (Ca)[/TD]
[TD="width: 80px"]Good[/TD]
[TD="width: 80px"]440[/TD]
[TD="width: 200px"]350.000 - 450.000 mg/L[/TD]

[TD="width: 150px"]Iron (Fe)[/TD]
[TD="width: 80px"]Good[/TD]
[TD="width: 80px"]0.001[/TD]
[TD="width: 200px"]0.000 - 0.010 mg/L

[/TD]
 
That is devastating Alan. Did you take all GFO off line? I think I would. After you ate dinner and found the dead fishes, did you check ammonia? It could have spiked as well as other things from stirring up the tank. I think you were on the right track by getting the light fixed and everything would have been fine with the new light cycle. The hair algae was there because of the high and long light cycle. Have your checked TDS on your Ro/DI unit? Where is your top off reservoir? Could something have fallen in there? Could someone (children) dropped money or food in your tank? I'm just grasping at straws here. I hate that is happening to you. Let me know if I can help you in any way. BTW - David's grandmother is still hanging in there, but I will call you back soon.
 
I would suggest you might have changed too many things too quickly....

That said, I'm wondering if something was wrong with the new water. Do you make your own or buy?

Could the water put back in have been the wrong temperature? Could a heater have been unplugged or bumped during the cleaning? I just lost a gramma in QT because the heater got bumped and so set way too low.
 
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Unfortunately, with so much occurring over a relatively short time it's really hard to pin-point exact cause. May also be a number of factors combined that is doing your system in.

Whenever I have had similar system issues in the past, the first thing I do is get the tank back to basics. Make sure all the equipment is working properly (especially temp, flow and lighting). No GFO, GAC, etc. Just regular water changes and diligent maintenance (detritus removal). Make sure that the corals are spot-fed regularly to help them maintain their energy reserves as they are going through a rough time, but if they don't feed then don't force them.
 
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Connie; again sorry about your husbands grandmother and wish her the best. The next day I changed out all carbon and GFO. No ammonia. 0 TDS. My top off is under the tank and don't think anything fell in it.

Eienna; I agree to many changes. Yes I make my own water. All waster temps are constant and controlled with the apex.

Nano sapiens; I agree again to many changes. Have checked and all equipment is working well. The bio pellet reactor did have a rotten egg smell, taking it off line. I'd like to get back to regular maintenance but I'm scared there is a hydrogen sulfide pocket lurking under the sand. Considering taking everything out and changing the sand.
 
I know things were going bad but it did seem a little worse after they sprayed for bugs. Wonder if they could have sprayed something that got into the water. Don't know how I could prove that it it were the case. Oh well...... Just a thought.
 
I know things were going bad but it did seem a little worse after they sprayed for bugs. Wonder if they could have sprayed something that got into the water. Don't know how I could prove that it it were the case. Oh well...... Just a thought.

That definitely could have happened.

When was the last time you replaced your RO/DI unit's media? Have you tested for chlorine or chloramines?
 
I've heard of several people losing fish after something being sprayed in the house (bug spray, air freshener, hot skillet with Teflon)
I know things were going bad but it did seem a little worse after they sprayed for bugs. Wonder if they could have sprayed something that got into the water. Don't know how I could prove that it it were the case. Oh well...... Just a thought.
 
What were the fish that died? If it was a poison, everything would be dead but only 8 fish died and the corals are slowly dying instead of an immediate RTN on the SPS. That rotting egg smell from the reactor was due to dead bacteria. Your system once had a large culture but with you making immediate changes to your tank, you stripped away all the nutrients and that killed a large portion of the culture. In turn, you re-cycled your tank. You said that you think it is because of hydrogen sulfide pockets. 2 in substrate isn't deep. I seriously doubt it would build up lots hydrogen sulfide pockets. The sand would be easily stirred by the inhabitants.

It can be summed up to your system was starving. The water changes and additives made it worse.
 
SeaHorseKeeper. I changed I changed the main membrane about 6 months ago and I'm routinely changing out the other filters. Have not tested for chlorine or chloramines. How would I test for those.

Connie, Just not convinced that's it because I still have fish living and my anemones look good.

Eienna, Thanks I read that. A little over my head but I think that may be the cause of the fish dying and my corals looking bad.

Marquiseo, Yellow Tang, Sailfin Tang, Six line, Flame Angle, Some chromes, Star Fish. and some corals looked dead the next day. A zero ammonia, nitrite would prove that wrong. Close to the rock the sand is deeper and could easily house a pocket. I also thought it may have had an ammonia spike but that's just not so. A pocket would immediately rise to the surface and dissipate into the air, hence some fish living and some dying. System was not starving. I've always had p04 reading and feed the tank generously, and all LPS look good but that's a good thought. Then next day my water did look cloudy. I change the carbon and GFO. Cleaned out the skimmer and it had a very foul smell. Today the tank is clear and no bad smell.
 
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first of all, I am extremely sorry for your losses. One thing to watch for...especially if the cleaning took too long, could it lack of oxygen...how was the circulation in the tank while the maintenance guy was performing maintenance. saltwater runs out of oxygen pretty fast, especially since it is heavily stocked. Other than that, only other guess is sand got disturbed exposing the anaerobic zone.
 
If I recall correctly, a main point the article makes is that when the sulfide hits oxygen it is very rapidly destroyed, and so should not cause deaths except in burrowers or fish right on top of the sand. I think something else is going on here.
 
Eienna, That's the only think that would explain the sudden death, over a period of about 3 hrs. I'm grasping but have found no other explanation. I'm thinking while he was cleaning the tank all the fish hide in the rock. I'm thinking all these fish were in the same area. All the fish that lived were in the far left corner and would not come out till the next day. My rock is broken into two peninsulas. Seems like all the fish that were on the left, from the first noticed death, are ok. I'm guessing all the others were on the right side. Also one of my corals, a blastomussa, turned white on one side. That side I'm thinking the gas went right buy it to the surface. If it were something else I would have thought all my fish would have died. I know everything in the tank slimed up more than normal. I've also thought the fish may have been fighting but the chromies don't get between them fighting nor did the flame angle. Also missing our star fish.
 

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