Established tank setup for 10 plus years lost cycle`

[OrchidMiss]

so I shoudnt
dose nitrates

I wouldn't dose anything without testing first.

 

[Cary Meredith]

ive tested some

 

[OrchidMiss]

No need for the multiple PM messages.
I'm just giving my input.
The way I run my tanks, I won't dose anything until I test everything.
I wouldn't treat any of my patients until I see ALL of their blood work.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Nitrites unless sky high have no significance- Only in Freshwater.
As for getting on track . . . .
Skimming will help. Additionally, to re-establish denitrifying bacteria, Micro Bacter XLM will give you a good boost.
For nitrates, normal feeding will elevate it as well as decreased water changes BUT first assure you are not getting false readings.
What test kits are you using ?
Clean up crew also helpful with maintenance

 

[FurrierTransform]

I think you said it correctly yourself, "I don't want to rush ..." However, is it possible something died without your knowledge?

 

[Cell]

Seems to be some confusion as to what the issue is. If you had high ammonia, your fish wouldn't be doing fine. If your corals are struggling and you have 0 phosphate and 0 nitrate, then they are probably starving and dosing would be a possible solution.

 

[Timfish]

There's a lot more going on in a reef ecosystem than just inorganic forms of nitrogen (ammonia, nitrites, nitrates) and inorganic phosphorus (PO4). I would be doing water changes and siphoning out nuisance algae with the water changes. Water changes will remove the hydrophillic labile Dissolved Organic Carbon (DOC) that promotes pathogenic shifts in coral microbiomes. Thsi labile DOC will also allow heterotrophic bacteria to feed off the refractory DOC that builds up in a system without water changes and can drop oxygen levels in coral surface mucus layer suffocating corals. Here's some links you may find informative. (Adding bacteria won't hurt but keep in mind less than 2% of microbial stuff can be cultured and stuck in a bottle and sponges and corals are processing nitrogen as well as phosphorus and carbon.)

"Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas" This video compliments Rohwer's book of the same title (Paper back is ~$20, Kindle is ~$10), both deal with the conflicting roles of the different types of DOC in reef ecosystems. While there is overlap bewteen his book and the video both have information not covered by the other and together give a broader view of the complex relationships found in reef ecosystems

Changing Seas - Mysterious Microbes

Nitrogen cycling in hte coral holobiont

BActeria and Sponges

Maintenance of Coral Reef Health (refferences at the end)

 

[Rmckoy]

Buying new test kit tonight will be a few days
but I have lost corals and have some issues with that really thick algea

Nutrients bottoming out could be the route of the issue .

no nutrients and high alkalinity is why corals are suffering.
essentially they’re starving

imo “ I would slowly lower alkalinity or increase nutrients
You might find it easier to feed heavier ( fish poop is the best coral food )
As well as lower alkalinity closer to nsw levels

 

[Rmckoy]

There was mention of a dsb in a 30 gal ?
Other the period of 15 years what’s the chance of it being able to process ammonia further than just nitrates but to complete the cycle as nitrogen gas ?

this would explain the zero nitrates .
but some phosphates are a still required for coral health .

 

[Rmckoy]

No need for the multiple PM messages.
I'm just giving my input.
The way I run my tanks, I won't dose anything until I test everything.
I wouldn't treat any of my patients until I see ALL of their blood work.

Rule #1 never dose anything without testing the need for it .

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

There's a lot more going on in a reef ecosystem than just inorganic forms of nitrogen (ammonia, nitrites, nitrates) and inorganic phosphorus (PO4). I would be doing water changes and siphoning out nuisance algae with the water changes. Water changes will remove the hydrophillic labile Dissolved Organic Carbon (DOC) that promotes pathogenic shifts in coral microbiomes. Thsi labile DOC will also allow heterotrophic bacteria to feed off the refractory DOC that builds up in a system without water changes and can drop oxygen levels in coral surface mucus layer suffocating corals. Here's some links you may find informative. (Adding bacteria won't hurt but keep in mind less than 2% of microbial stuff can be cultured and stuck in a bottle and sponges and corals are processing nitrogen as well as phosphorus and carbon.)

"Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas" This video compliments Rohwer's book of the same title (Paper back is ~$20, Kindle is ~$10), both deal with the conflicting roles of the different types of DOC in reef ecosystems. While there is overlap bewteen his book and the video both have information not covered by the other and together give a broader view of the complex relationships found in reef ecosystems

Changing Seas - Mysterious Microbes

Nitrogen cycling in hte coral holobiont

BActeria and Sponges

Maintenance of Coral Reef Health (refferences at the end)

@Timfish , there you go with all those sexy big words again

 

[Rmckoy]

Buying new test kit tonight will be a few days
but I have lost corals and have some issues with that really thick algea

Can you post pictures of your system

 

[Cary Meredith]

Can you post pictures of your system

I'll post pictures once main lights are on, I have pictures of refugium and frag tank, which are on a reverse light schedule.

 

[sixty_reefer]

phosphate 0, nitrates 0, nitrites
0, carbonate hardness is at about 14 which is why I think fish are ok, ph 8.0

This is the reason of your “lost cycle”, without nutrients available all your bacteria went dormant, you don’t need to add more bacteria you just need to raise those nutrients to wake up the bacteria again.
The lack of available nutrients will end up starving your coral probably the reason you may be seeing changes in the coral.

 

[Tamberav]

As suggested above. I would do water changes and remove debris or algae. Regardless of what my tests say, I have also neglected tanks in the past and water changes really seemed to help. It could be because I was adding back trace elements or perhaps removing DOC as mentioned above.

 

[Cary Meredith]

Frag tank (now growing some macro algae (40 breeder))

Refugium on the right and black tank to the left and back (painted completely black cover and all sides) is DSB.

Not pictured is the sump, total water volume is probably about 250 gallons all systems are plumbed together.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

There's a lot more going on in a reef ecosystem than just inorganic forms of nitrogen (ammonia, nitrites, nitrates) and inorganic phosphorus (PO4). I would be doing water changes and siphoning out nuisance algae with the water changes. Water changes will remove the hydrophillic labile Dissolved Organic Carbon (DOC) that promotes pathogenic shifts in coral microbiomes. Thsi labile DOC will also allow heterotrophic bacteria to feed off the refractory DOC that builds up in a system without water changes and can drop oxygen levels in coral surface mucus layer suffocating corals. Here's some links you may find informative. (Adding bacteria won't hurt but keep in mind less than 2% of microbial stuff can be cultured and stuck in a bottle and sponges and corals are processing nitrogen as well as phosphorus and carbon.)

"Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas" This video compliments Rohwer's book of the same title (Paper back is ~$20, Kindle is ~$10), both deal with the conflicting roles of the different types of DOC in reef ecosystems. While there is overlap bewteen his book and the video both have information not covered by the other and together give a broader view of the complex relationships found in reef ecosystems

Changing Seas - Mysterious Microbes

Nitrogen cycling in hte coral holobiont

BActeria and Sponges

Maintenance of Coral Reef Health (refferences at the end)

Yes, finally someone who emphasizes the microbiome's role in our aquariums and it's issues!

 

[lobstermeet]

Corals are far more sensitive to low salinity than fish (who actually appreciate it to some degree) so that's probably your culprit. Corals are also far less sensitive to ammonia than fish because they don't have blood/hemoglobin, where most of the ill effects happen. If ammonia was the issue you'd probably see dead fish and fine coral. Another possibility is that copper got into your tank somehow, I had mysterious coral deaths but thriving fish after a brass fitting fell into my sump. I know this can also happen wires become exposed in pumps etc.

 

[Cary Meredith]

UPDATE: I must have messed up when I was doing the initial ammonia test as I got new test kit in and it is reading 0 for ammonia, nitrate and nitrite's. I did retest with the old kit just to check and it also now tested 0. So now I shall start feeding more to try and jump start the cycle and start getting the nitrates up some. Thanks everyone for your comments and suggestions.

 

[Rmckoy]

UPDATE: I must have messed up when I was doing the initial ammonia test as I got new test kit in and it is reading 0 for ammonia, nitrate and nitrite's. I did retest with the old kit just to check and it also now tested 0. So now I shall start feeding more to try and jump start the cycle and start getting the nitrates up some. Thanks everyone for your comments and suggestions.

I
Think jump starting the cycle isn’t the proper wording

I would focus on increasing nutrients though