ESV B-Ionic vs BRS 2-Part

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Has anybody used both ESV B-Ionic and BRS 2-Part? I’m wondering if the $20 extra for the ESV is worth it. I’ve never used it, but have always heard good things about ESV.

I’m looking for some first hand feedback about the pros and cons of ESV compared to BRS.

The only draw for me is the Trace Elements that ESV offers. Is this true? Has anybody tested the ESV with a ICP test to confirm this is accurate?

Or does anybody know if Randy has commented about it? Please link any information if you have it.
 
Has anybody used both ESV B-Ionic and BRS 2-Part? I’m wondering if the $20 extra for the ESV is worth it. I’ve never used it, but have always heard good things about ESV.

I’m looking for some first hand feedback about the pros and cons of ESV compared to BRS.

The only draw for me is the Trace Elements that ESV offers. Is this true? Has anybody tested the ESV with a ICP test to confirm this is accurate?

Or does anybody know if Randy has commented about it? Please link any information if you have it.
Personally, I feel that they are equal in function. The only difference is ESV is pre-mixed. I cannot justify the extra cost of B-Ionic. The trace elements would be replenished through water changes as long as you perform them. If you really want to save a buck, go with the DIY formulations that are listed in a sticky at the top of this forum.
 
One thing that I always keep in mind with trace elements equally of concern is build up of too many trace elements vs depletion of them. We add a lot of elements with various foods, which is why I have always been a fan of W/C to regulate trace elements, reduces them if too many, adds them if not enough.
 
I"m curious about this too.
I've only continued to use B Ionic as I have my doser dialed in perfectly w/ESV.
I'm wondering that if ounce for ounce, it's the same alk and cal. levels. I don't want to have to redial the doser again.
 
It is not identical in potency. B-ionic is more potent. You can try to make it equally potent, but the alk part can be hard to dissolve.

B-ionic is an excellent product and has the theoretical advantage of appropriately balanced minor and trace elements, but it is not a trace element supplement and should not be thought if that way. Whichever product you use for alk and calcium, you may want to supplement particular trace metals such as iron or molybdenum.
 
Brs I had to dose 2-3x as much, went back to Esv and have been using that ever since.
 
Like Randy mentioned look at the overal potency between these and also the other trace elements blended in the different brand solutions when considering overall “cost of use.” When I am dosing Red Sea products - the most expensive up front purchase price of the three - I only need to put in say 8 ml daily (alk). ESV would be about 24ml, BRS is 49ml approx (if I recall my last calculation). So the initial price difference may look like a larger spread but the daily costs after mixed are somewhat closer than you think based on actual dosing levels.

Too, Red Sea has you also dose their ABCD “colors” (added purchase), ESV claims most (not all) of the trace is in their AB blends, BRS says right out they are not in there so you need another source for those on their formulas. But your salts for water changes may have them too.

BRS likely is the lowest costs but you will have a little prep-mixing work to do on occasion. And the ESV has a little mixing work - and you need to allow some time (24-48 hours) for the ALK to fully dissolve back up before use as it always seems to be powder and a chunk of “glass” in the concentrate bottles when you get them that takes a day or so (and maybe some warming) to fully dissolve after you add the RODI.

I personally like the lower concentrate blends as they dont settle or re-coagulate in the dosing storage containers. Mine are in the basement with the DOS unit (about 66 degrees always down there) and Red Sea products start out pretty syrup-like from the bottle compared to the other two and their calcium seems to like to coagulate and plug the lines for me so I switched. I dont have experience with the Red Sea powdered versions - I understand they may not be as syrup like after mixing but then why not just go the BRS route IMO. (With that said I am testing out ESV B-ionic right now)
 
I use the red sea two part and buy them in the 5l jugs. I am intrigued by the b ionic. I may try it someday. The trace element component is very interesting.
 
I use the red sea two part and buy them in the 5l jugs. I am intrigued by the b ionic. I may try it someday. The trace element component is very interesting.

It's only interesting to a chemist (lol). It's not a trace element supplement and will not greatly raise trace element levels if you maintain salinity (assuming it is made exactly as described). It’s like a tiny water change.

It might even lower trace elements. I show how here, for example, it might lower copper despite having copper in it:

http://www.reefedition.com/the-many-methods-for-supplementing-calcium-and-alkalinity/

One issue that has confused some reef keepers, however, is the presence of trace elements. Assuming that these products are actually formulated with every ion such that a true natural seawater residue remained (let’s call this the “ideal” product), then it will necessarily contain such ions as copper. Since copper is elevated in some reef tanks, and is toxic to many invertebrates, reef keepers have wrongly criticized this method as adding more copper. That’s actually not what would happen. Since these products leave a natural seawater residue, and since copper may be elevated in concentration in many reef tanks relative to seawater, then using these “ideal” products will actually LOWER copper levels because when the increase in salinity is corrected, the copper will drop.

For example:

You have copper in your aquarium at 4 ppb and salinity of S=35.

You add a two part additive that over the course of a month raises salinity to S=36, and raises copper to 4.02 ppb.

Then you correct the salinity back to S=35 by diluting everything in the tank with fresh water, and you get a final copper concentration of 3.9 ppb.

Does this happen in real products and not “ideal” products? I have no idea. But the statement by manufacturers that it contains all ions in natural ratios, including copper, should not be viewed as a concern that it is exacerbating a heavy metal problem.

The rise in salinity of these products over time can be very roughly calculated, though there are several reasons why this calculation is only an estimate. For every 1000 meq of alkalinity added in this fashion (and the matching amount of calcium) these products will deliver on the order of 60 grams of other ions to the tank. In a tank with a low calcification demand (defined later to be 18.3 thousand meq of alkalinity per year in a 100 gallon tank (0.4 dKH/day)) this effect will raise the salinity by 3 ppt per year (compared to a normal salinity of S ~35). In a high demand tank (defined later to be 219 thousand meq of alkalinity per year in a 100 gallon tank (4.4 dKH/day)), the salinity will rise by 35 ppt in a year, or approximately doubling the salinity. Consequently, the salinity should be monitored closely in using these types of additives, especially in a tank with high calcification rates.
 
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I first used ESV B-Ionic in the late 90's. It was an excellent product then, if a bit expensive. Alternatives were ice melt and sodium bicarb from the hardware store. B-Ionic sure felt a lot safer :)

I started using BRS's 2part a few years ago. Worked fine, no complaints, really...

When BRS went to the 'pharma grade' 2pt, reducing their packaging costs, and RAISING prices fairly dramatically vs their older 2pt, I switched back to ESV. With the potency of ESV, you need less to do the same job... and I like that it ships in gallon jugs, rather than cheap ziplock bags.

From a cost standpoint, I can't imagine it's all that big of a difference, if you were to add it all up year over year.
 
@Randy Holmes-Farley
Since we're on the topic of 2 part...
I use a sulfur denitrator. We know from its use that it sucks the alkalinity out of the water. I have to compensate for this by dosing alk. My consumption without the denitrator is low as my SPS is mostly small frags. With its use, I go through a considerable amount of alk (40mL's per day compared to 5mL's per day of Calcium). I now realize that ESV B-Ionic Alkalinity contains trace elements.
My question is, since I'm dosing more alk to correct the offset of the denitrator, should I now assume that I am over adding trace elements compared to the amount being used? Or does the denitrator use up the trace elements included with the alk I'm dosing every hour?
 
@Randy Holmes-Farley
Since we're on the topic of 2 part...
I use a sulfur denitrator. We know from its use that it sucks the alkalinity out of the water. I have to compensate for this by dosing alk. My consumption without the denitrator is low as my SPS is mostly small frags. With its use, I go through a considerable amount of alk (40mL's per day compared to 5mL's per day of Calcium). I now realize that ESV B-Ionic Alkalinity contains trace elements.
My question is, since I'm dosing more alk to correct the offset of the denitrator, should I now assume that I am over adding trace elements compared to the amount being used? Or does the denitrator use up the trace elements included with the alk I'm dosing every hour?

There's no perfect (commercial) answer for such a scenario, but I think using the alk part of B-ionic would be a tad better, at least in theory, maybe not detectably to your observations of the tank.

The trace and minor elements in B-ionic try to offset the depression of trace and minor elements by the salinity rise alone from the sodium and chloride. One half of the offset is likely better than no offset.
 
@Randy Holmes-Farley And while on the subject as well, not to hijack, but I have no way of sourcing alternative products for adding calcium. BRS shipping to my location has now more than doubled the overall cost of Ca & Alk. What are your thoughts of using DampRid as an alternative for calcium supplementation as I can source that easily?
The MSDS on the website indicated the following;
CAS # Hazardous Components (Chemical Name) 3. COMPOSITION/INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS Concentration 10043-52-4 Calcium chloride 70.0 -100.0 % 7647-14-5 Sodium chloride < 3.0 % 7447-40-7 Potassium chloride < 3.0 %
https://damprid.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/DR_Moisture_Absorber_SDS-FG01K.pdf
Thoughts, please.
 
I use B-Ionic and it keeps my tanks nicely balanced, when used with 5% weekly water changes.
ESV is more concentrated that BRS, as mentioned. Here are the numbers.

BRS 1.9 mEq/l
ESV 2.8 mEq/l
SeaChem Reef Fusion 4.4 mEq/l

So if you switch from BRS to ESV, for example, you should require only 68% as much to achieve the same alk dosing.

Reef Fusion is only included as an example. It is very concentrated, but I do not recommend it.
It can result in imbalance when used at the high end of its recommended dosing range.
 
@Randy Holmes-Farley And while on the subject as well, not to hijack, but I have no way of sourcing alternative products for adding calcium. BRS shipping to my location has now more than doubled the overall cost of Ca & Alk. What are your thoughts of using DampRid as an alternative for calcium supplementation as I can source that easily?
The MSDS on the website indicated the following;
CAS # Hazardous Components (Chemical Name) 3. COMPOSITION/INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS Concentration 10043-52-4 Calcium chloride 70.0 -100.0 % 7647-14-5 Sodium chloride < 3.0 % 7447-40-7 Potassium chloride < 3.0 %
https://damprid.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/DR_Moisture_Absorber_SDS-FG01K.pdf
Thoughts, please.

It might be OK, I just do not have enough info to say for sure. Some folks use Leslie's pool calcium chloride.
 
It might be OK, I just do not have enough info to say for sure. Some folks use Leslie's pool calcium chloride.
I wish I could source Leslie's but, alas, no dice here...
 
And the ESV has a little mixing work - and you need to allow some time (24-48 hours) for the ALK to fully dissolve back up before use as it always seems to be powder and a chunk of “glass” in the concentrate bottles when you get them that takes a day or so (and maybe some warming) to fully dissolve after you add the RODI.

It is a bit of work. Always easier if you can buy it in bulk, mix up the containers and let them sit for a month or two before using. :)
 
Local small business coral guy uses ESV 2 part, and another guy with high end acros and montis (like the $200+ a frag ones) does as well. Both of those tanks are thriving, so I see no downside other than increased cost. Debated swapping to it myself in all honesty just to further simplify things.
 
I also have used BRS 2 part. It’s inexpensive and easy to use. When you buy the kit, they send you funnels and jugs... everything you need. Over time as my corals grew, I found I was using so much that the money saved by buying a lesser expensive product, began to diminish. I’ve now switched to Red Sea. Still.... the BRS product works if you don’t have high demand. Just my .02!
 

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