Ethics in Reef Keeping

Dom · May 12, 2016

Recently, there was a post regarding the placement of a Zebra eel in a new 60 gallon tank. By the time I read the post and attempted to reply, the thread had been closed to further comment and I understand why.

All drama aside, I think the bigger issue is why the LFS (local fish store) would even allow that sale to happen?

To me, it seems like a money grab on their part; "sell the setup, make the money". Where is the guidance? I could NEVER sell that setup under those circumstances. If the customer insisted, I'd tell them to go buy it somewhere else.

Its hard to find a reputable fish store. That's why forums like R2R are so important.

Dom

Cory · May 12, 2016

Yep one lfs sold a giant clam illegally. Hes now shut down and fined.

NeuroticAquatics · May 13, 2016

I think most LFS are there to make money, bottom line. I've heard a lot of them do the "it could work" when I would tell the person "bad idea". I think many "by the book rules" are overrated and more extreme than necessary. Some people define success as a fish surviving a couple years and others would say ten or twenty. It's a bit of science but it's a lot of opinion too.

I don't look to any LFS for answers. That goes for purchases, disease treatment, equipment, etc. there are people on here (and other forums) that I trust a million times more than any LFS. I basically use LFS to buy fish/products after I've done my research online.

maroun.c · May 13, 2016

Do we know for sure that the LFS knew that the eel was going to a 60G to blame them?

MOPAR · May 13, 2016

The LFS has no way of knowing if a customer has a tank appropriate for the animal or the circumstances around the purchase. Thats not including if the customer is telling the truth about their setup. I would hope if the LFS knew they would do somthing, but sadly business is business. I would assume if a LFS turned down people who didn't have the equipment or knowledge needed to care for an animal they would go out of business in short order or lose a bunch of sales. I feel it is up to the consumer to have the knowledge and proper equipment to house these animals. Lack of knowing in my mind is no excuse. I wouldn't buy a wolf and expect it to do well in my apartment, but unfortunately people will do as they choose. There definitely are some shady stores though don't get me wrong. I really wish people didn't have their own agenda and took care of these animals better. It's no fun being a lower life form. Sorry rant over haha.

Daniel@R2R · May 13, 2016

maroun.c said:
Do we know for sure that the LFS knew that the eel was going to a 60G to blame them?

Agreed. This is an excellent question. I don't think I'd pass the blame to the LFS.

Ultimately, it's not the LFS' job to find out what type of tank a fish is going in (after all, they don't generally ask you what size home you're taking your new puppy to or anything comparable). However, if the LFS happens to find out about unethical practices (whether fish, birds, or puppies), then I think an ethical consideration becomes their responsibility. For example, if a guy walks in to buy a puppy with his kid, I doubt they'll ask a bunch of questions, but if the guy happens to mention that this puppy looks like he'll grow into a champion fighting dog, then there's an ethical responsibility on the part of the LFS.

FLAdaboy · May 13, 2016

LFS responsibility only extends so far. If I put something in my system, it's on me. Part of this hobby is learning. Learning is made up from the experience you gain as well as educating yourself. Person goes to fish store, says I want this, store employee advises, customer asks more questions then hands money over. We can't blame the LFS. Here's a thought, next time you are in a dilemma of choosing livestock to throw in the system, GOOGLE........ This works.

RyanCSGO · May 13, 2016

There are good ones out there. I've heard the owner of my LFS refuse service to someone because he knew the system he had just purchased. he may have lost the sale. and potential income from a return customer, but his morals and ethics stay intact. Can't put a price on that.

Bronc · May 13, 2016

My LFS is absolutely fantastic. I just got back into the hobby after 15 yrs off and wanted to make an SPS dominant tank. They made me wait until my tank had matured a bit and I had shown that I knew what I was doing before they let me buy any.

rayn · May 13, 2016

It varies by lfs, I don't think we can group them all together. I also don't think we can lay blame at their feet. We as aquarists need to be proactive and research before we buy. We need to know what we are buying and what the potential long term outcomes are. Buying small fish, just to turn around and trade them in when they grow is wrong. Even if you have the place to turn them in now, sooner or later the place taking them will be full.

This comes down more to ethics of the reef keeper them the seller.

Russ265 · May 13, 2016

this is the same logic that overweight people blaming mcdonalds use.

the store just offers goods. your poor judgement is just that. yours.

my .02

omykiss001 · May 13, 2016

I read the zebra eel post and the others from that OP in question. I won't go into any detail regarding those posts. What I can say is how proud I am of the people in this forum. The OP was proposing stocking his 60 with species that should not be housed in that size tank and several species that were quite aggressive. The OP pretty much said these animals were disposable and if they last 3-6 months they would be happy if the LFS was accepting of this view bad on them too. Over and over the people on this forum advised these decisions were bad for the welfare of the animals and this individuals eventual success or failure in the hobby and would end poorly for both the animals and his tank. Pretty much all of the responses were nice and altruistic trying to help this hobbyist not make the same mistakes many on here learned the hard way from years of experience. Really my point is this forum acted with a strong ethical standard for the well being of both the animals and our hobby/passion/obsession and I could not take more pride being a part of this community. Thanks to all on R2R such a great community.