Ethics of buying from petco?

[starypotter]

Hi everyone,
I'm looking to get some larger hermit crabs, not sure if LFS has them, I'll be checking in the morning. But I do however know that Petco had some last time I was in. They'll be QTed for 76 days before being introduced to the display of course.

My concerns are as follows-

-I know that if I buy from petco they'll just go on and restock more of the same, but the same would be true for LFS.
-Are the suppliers they use going to be less humane than the ones a reputable LFS uses?
-Would any suppliers be able to get away with not following the same regulations a more reputable -supplier would? If it's contributing to unsafe collection I don't want to support that, but I figure at least it's not one of the yellow tangs/foxfaces that go through the petco systems on a regular basis.
-What are other some concerns and considerations that come to mind?

 

[Amoo]

So I have a few comments here.

First and foremost we're already ripping creatures out of the ocean and putting them into a glass box for our enjoyment. Each person has to draw their own line on ethics after that IMO. Where one chooses to do so is up to them.

Secondly if you're worried about it, buy some cleaners from a place like @reefcleaners . I've been ordering from John for YEARS. I know they either collect their own stuff or breed their own stuff or at least used to. Plus they're a sponsor here. Good company and good people.

Regardless of how reputable a store is, unless you do research from that store to the distribution company to the collection company...etc you're going to be missing part of the info. If you're worried about it, like I said, go with John.

 

[hart24601]

Petco stock mostly if not entirely comes from quality marine and ORA. Same wholesaler liveaquaria/divers den use - even before the buyout and a major seller to lfs as well.

The petco here isn't great, but neither are the lfs, Petco regularly exceeds one of the salt stores and matches the other on and off for quality. Not that it's a good thing, but that is how it is here.

 

[starypotter]

So I have a few comments here.

First and foremost we're already ripping creatures out of the ocean and putting them into a glass box for our enjoyment. Each person has to draw their own line on ethics after that IMO. Where one chooses to do so is up to them.

Secondly if you're worried about it, buy some cleaners from a place like @reefcleaners . I've been ordering from John for YEARS. I know they either collect their own stuff or breed their own stuff or at least used to. Plus they're a sponsor here. Good company and good people.

Regardless of how reputable a store is, unless you do research from that store to the distribution company to the collection company...etc you're going to be missing part of the info. If you're worried about it, like I said, go with John.

That's a good point, I guess my biggest concern is just how many of these creatures are being taken from the oceans and the different regulations that might be in place for things like that.
I suppose that there really is no true way to know just how safely and ethically it's done if you need to examine every part of the process, I would have hoped there'd be some solid regulations you could at least go by.

I did order my CUC from reef cleaners and it's great, and actually am looking through a tab now to see what they have in stock to see if maybe I'd put another order in. I got my rock from them too. I loved all of the snails and little hermits I got from them, but I never see my little hermits and I love watching them wander around and do their thing. TBH I started reefing because I really like all of the inverts. I'm considering the thin stripe one on reef cleaners, but seeing as I only just purchased my CUC package and don't need a refresher yet and shipping is 35 on a 25 minimum order that's... a bit much for the desire of just a hermit crab or two which is why I'm taking a look elsewhere as well.

 

[starypotter]

Petco stock mostly if not entirely comes from quality marine and ORA. Same wholesaler liveaquaria/divers den use - even before the buyout and a major seller to lfs as well.

The petco here isn't great, but neither are the lfs, Petco regularly exceeds one of the salt stores and matches the other on and off for quality. Not that it's a good thing, but that is how it is here.

Interesting, do you know if that's the supplier for the petco company as a whole or if individual locations or regions have different suppliers?

 

[hart24601]

Interesting, do you know if that's the supplier for the petco company as a whole or if individual locations or regions have different suppliers?

Last I knew it was all locations although no doubt there is some variation. Quality marine is huuge. If you see the bags when they come into Petco you can see labels.

 

[starypotter]

Last I knew it was all locations although no doubt there is some variation. Quality marine is huuge. If you see the bags when they come into Petco you can see labels.

Alright cool! I haven't seen my petco receiving any shipments before so I can't really say what the bags are but it's good to know what to look for. I do know that the clownfish, cardinals, and some others do specify captive bred on the tags at least.

 

[MTBake]

The Petco by me has made tremendous improvements to the husbandry of the fish tanks over the past 2-3 years. Not only the salt but fresh as well. It really comes down the employees, IMO. Some just care more and try harder than others. The few people that maintain the fish section at my local Petco really seem to take pride in what they do. I would not hesitate to buy livestock from them.

I also second the comment about reefcleaners.org. I've oredered 3 times and have never been disappointed. I really like the mini cerith snails Tiny little work horses in my tank.

 

[Squeaky McMurdo]

Petco gets their livestock from the same supplier as LiveAquaria. I’ve even *gasp* ordered live fish from them before. (Did you know you can tack fish onto your next repeat delivery and get them shipped for the cost of salt or fish food? Lol)

It really depends on your local Petco and who is runnng the fish department. I wouldn’t touch anything in one particular store in Utah with a 100 foot pole, but I have yet to be disappointed with anything from the one in Pocatello, ID. Some of those guys really love their job.

I got my current hermits from ReefCleaners. I ordered the 2.5 gallon snail only package and added the Assorted Hermits. It came out to like $16. Two of them are thin stripes, one is HUGE and is my favorite tank inhabitant.

 

[MTBake]

The build your own cleaner package at Liveaquaria has also worked out very well for me in the past. There's usually quite a bit of inverts to pick and choose from.

 

[starypotter]

The Petco by me has made tremendous improvements to the husbandry of the fish tanks over the past 2-3 years. Not only the salt but fresh as well. It really comes down the employees, IMO. Some just care more and try harder than others. The few people that maintain the fish section at my local Petco really seem to take pride in what they do. I would not hesitate to buy livestock from them.

I also second the comment about reefcleaners.org. I've oredered 3 times and have never been disappointed. I really like the mini cerith snails Tiny little work horses in my tank.

That's great to hear! I live in a very well supplied area, I bounce around between 3 different petcos for dry goods all within 20 minutes of me, and there's a handful of others nearby that I can go to if the ones I'm at don't have a particular item in stock, but all of the petcos I've got to except 'my' petco all of their fish are so so thin it's sad, my petco at least has healthy looking fish, they'll often have a big FW tank, or have individual FW tanks with a sign on it saying that those fish aren't up to their standards yet and need to be treated which I've never seen at the others even when it's sorely needed. Their corals are another matter, but maybe they'll get there one day!

 

[starypotter]

Petco gets their livestock from the same supplier as LiveAquaria. I’ve even *gasp* ordered live fish from them before. (Did you know you can tack fish onto your next repeat delivery and get them shipped for the cost of salt or fish food? Lol)

It really depends on your local Petco and who is runnng the fish department. I wouldn’t touch anything in one particular store in Utah with a 100 foot pole, but I have yet to be disappointed with anything from the one in Pocatello, ID. Some of those guys really love their job.

I got my current hermits from ReefCleaners. I ordered the 2.5 gallon snail only package and added the Assorted Hermits. Two of them are thin stripes, one is HUGE and is my favorite tank inhabitant.

Oh my gosh that's pretty incredible I have got to look into that, we've for sure got enough pets to have a repeat order going! That's awesome about the hermits! When was this because as of now the thin stripes are only for the express delivery which is a bit much, I totally understand it and I wish I'd thought to order more when I was at least buying my whole package to help offset the cost.

 

[Squeaky McMurdo]

You have to gamble with the assorted hermits and hope for one. They have been in my last two orders though.

 

[starypotter]

The build your own cleaner package at Liveaquaria has also worked out very well for me in the past. There's usually quite a bit of inverts to pick and choose from.

I'll have to add that to my list! I shied away from them because their halloween hermit crabs were like 11-12 dollars and there is a LFS that has them on occasion for 4, but I'm not entirely sure I'm confident in their husbandry, I'll have to check them out again with a bit more knowledge under my belt.
Is it common to receive a delivery, and just dump the fish from the bags right on into the system? This was fresh water, and all of the fish looked absolutely terrible, floating on their back, sideways, laying on the ground as the guy was unbagging and adding them to the tank.

 

[starypotter]

You have to gamble with the assorted hermits and hope for one. They have been in my last two orders though.

That's a bit exciting and disappointing, I'm not one for gambling I'd gotten my assorted hermits from there and they were all little ones and many of them died right away. Some in the bag, some didn't make it ten minutes in the tank without one of my other inverts coming along and thinking they were a tiny crunchy snack even with me shooing them away.

 

[starypotter]

Petco gets their livestock from the same supplier as LiveAquaria. I’ve even *gasp* ordered live fish from them before. (Did you know you can tack fish onto your next repeat delivery and get them shipped for the cost of salt or fish food? Lol)

It really depends on your local Petco and who is runnng the fish department. I wouldn’t touch anything in one particular store in Utah with a 100 foot pole, but I have yet to be disappointed with anything from the one in Pocatello, ID. Some of those guys really love their job.

I got my current hermits from ReefCleaners. I ordered the 2.5 gallon snail only package and added the Assorted Hermits. It came out to like $16. Two of them are thin stripes, one is HUGE and is my favorite tank inhabitant.

Ah he's fantastic! I do have a frag tank that doesn't have much of a CUC......... maybe I should bite the bullet on that

 

[dantimdad]

I worked for Petco solely working on the aquariums for 3 years part time.

Our store drew a crowd of real aquarists and I doubled the saltwater section.

We got the vest looking yellow tangs of anywhere back then and a lot of really nice other fish .

We should NEVER have tried to keep corals around so I didn't order them I would load the order to it's limit with CUC and fish so they wouldn't ship them in

My whole point to this is, not all Petco stores are the same. It boils down to the manager hiring the right staff.

 

[Oldreefer44]

As a former manager at Petco, I can tell you that I left the company due to the very high mortality rate of all the kinds of animals they sell. One of the first tasks every day prior to opening, was to collect everything that had died overnight. There is hardly a day that goes by that there are not dead animals. The attitude from corporate was that the most important thing was correct monetary accounting versus preventative care. IMO, buying from a company that feels that this is just part of doing business, much the same as shoplifting losses, just promotes more of the same. There is no doubt in my mind that they have a higher mortality rate than your average LFS or even (most) on line vendors. Therefore the more we buy, the more that die.

 

[starypotter]

I worked for Petco solely working on the aquariums for 3 years part time.

Our store drew a crowd of real aquarists and I doubled the saltwater section.

We got the vest looking yellow tangs of anywhere back then and a lot of really nice other fish .

We should NEVER have tried to keep corals around so I didn't order them I would load the order to it's limit with CUC and fish so they wouldn't ship them in

My whole point to this is, not all Petco stores are the same. It boils down to the manager hiring the right staff.

That's great to hear that it's a possibility of a petco excelling with the right people! My petco doesn't sound like it's got it's act together quite as well as you had it but it's good to know it could be possible.

 

[starypotter]

As a former manager at Petco, I can tell you that I left the company due to the very high mortality rate of all the kinds of animals they sell. One of the first tasks every day prior to opening, was to collect everything that had died overnight. There is hardly a day that goes by that there are not dead animals. The attitude from corporate was that the most important thing was correct monetary accounting versus preventative care. IMO, buying from a company that feels that this is just part of doing business, much the same as shoplifting losses, just promotes more of the same. There is no doubt in my mind that they have a higher mortality rate than your average LFS or even (most) on line vendors. Therefore the more we buy, the more that die.

That's so incredibly sad, it's really a terrible model to operate under, there was one petco that I went into and had to go find an employee to get rid of some dead animals in the small mammals area, I never went back there because when I told the person working there she thanked me for letting her know but other than that seemed very dismissive of it and went along to only complain that it was yet another one that had died as if she wasn't talking about a life and it was just a minor inconvenience in her day. 'My' petco is at least always trying to have some of it's more irritable inhabitants adopted, the employees I speak with all follow the 'adopt don't shop' model so it makes me feel a little better that at least with all of the evils of a big corporation the animals in their specific care are being taken care of right.
I at least know my local petsmart has good practices, I wish they kept saltwater so I could support them. They'd always let me into their back animal room to see all of the little critters who couldn't be sold or were dropped off at their door or were ill. I liked the transparency they offered.