Etiquette at frag swaps

Singlefin · Jan 14, 2013

rcypert said:
Stop being grouchy!

This should be society's new mantra for 2013.....

cdness · Jan 14, 2013

This is a tough one and really comes down to the person, not the swap, event, or meeting... Some people feel that they have the power when buying because they have the cash in their hands. I know in my tank it is a seller's market, not a buyers where I will hook people up with deals as they buy stuff and as I get to know them better. I have run into my fair share of shady and untrustworthy people. In the end there are a few things I really push for:

1. If the price is too high, just walk away
2. If you promise to buy something, don't back out.
3. Be courteous to others when buying or selling
4. Know that this is a hobby and not a business for most. The hobbiest is selling to support the hobby, not make a fortune.
5. Don't lie, you will get caught at some point and lose all your credibility.
6. Don't steal from another hobbiest, business or anyone really. It is just plain wrong and it makes you a bad person...

Just my opinion and $.02. Take it as you may...

Bandomo · Jan 14, 2013

I love it when people who sell frags complain or call it a hobby. If its just a hobby to you you should be giving them away, not charging. Selling something will result in these inconveniences. Anyone that goes past trading and starts selling frags is not a hobbyist imo. Im not saying your prices aren't fair or that its ok to steal, but you're still making money, even if its not as much as what others charge. If you are looking for the quality talks and friendships associated with the "hobby", stop selling and stick to trading.

always reefin said:
Ridiculous comment IMO!

I agree 100%. I think you failed to try and understand the moral of the OP's post. I see that you have a strong opinion in regards to selling frags, which thats fine, you're definitely entitled to it. But the thread is related to the lack of ethics, common courtesy, and respect that is becoming more and more obvious in our hobby. If you think the lack of respect is only associated with selling frags, you're highly mistaken. I constantly get offers from fellow reefers (not newbies) wanting to trade Eagle Eyes for a frag of My Miami. Wouldn't you find that offensive?

1fishmonger · Jan 14, 2013

Bandomo said:
I constantly get offers from fellow reefers (not newbies) wanting to trade Eagle Eyes for a frag of My Miami. Wouldn't you find that offensive?

Maybe ridiculous but not offensive. Bad/low ball offer = Ignored and black listed...I have a good memory when it comes to reef related things

There's nothing wrong with selling. It's an expensive hobby and its nice to recoup costs on occasion. As noted, friends get stuff free or reduced cost...Reefing friends understand the costs and don't have an issue. Randoms have to pay. I don't think there's anything wrong with that at all. There is definitely something wrong with those that expect things on a silver platter. Increasingly so, it seems like new generations of reefers don't want to put in any effort but want all the benefits. Everything from asking basic questions without researching to expecting expensive frags for free.

Haven't posted this much on a thread but reefing manners struck a nerve.

KJAG · Jan 14, 2013

As mentioned, this topic speaks of human nature in general and it doesn't stop at the frag swap entrance. Since the preschool playground everybody has had to deal with the behaviors mentioned. It should just be laughed off by now. Personally , I may run into some local people at a frag swap and chat a little bit, but I'm not there to hang out and listen to another Dr.Tim presentation( he does give epic presentations). I obtain knowledge here and with other outlets. Frag swap: it's in and out as soon I've gathered some new frags.

Ron Reefman · Jan 15, 2013

xcorallusx said:
I love it when people who sell frags complain or call it a hobby. If its just a hobby to you you should be giving them away, not charging. Selling something will result in these inconveniences. Anyone that goes past trading and starts selling frags is not a hobbyist imo. Im not saying your prices aren't fair or that its ok to steal, but you're still making money, even if its not as much as what others charge. If you are looking for the quality talks and friendships associated with the "hobby", stop selling and stick to trading.

You've never heard of 'hobby income'? Just because it's a hobby you should give them away? Really? Are you serious? I trade and give frags away to friends and helpful club members, but I even sell weed coarals like GSP and waving hand when I sell it on craigslist. I try to introduce them to our local club too.

And just because this person is selling, they should have to deal with people who act like a horse's a**. Why? Do you act like that in a nice restaurant? They only person who needs to suffer a fool is the one who is a fool. Show a little class and act like an adult. Common courtesy is a dying value and it's a shame.

joshporksandwich · Jan 15, 2013

I've had a copier business for 8 years and my competition asks me for help all the time and I help them without a problem. The same when i need something i go to them.

The aquarium hobby or business is completely different in the one year on the hobby I've never made and lost so many friends in my life lol. Most are too overly sensitive and others will fight for $5. All the businesses hate each other and are always talking bad about each other. I spent a lot of money in 1 year all on very high end z&ps. Luckily I dont know why my tank does really good with zoas and I frag and sell or trade with local people to try to get some $$$ back. I've encountered my share of crazies but most of the people have been very pleasant.

I sold at my first frag swap in december and a lot of people told me they wanted this and that and I told them all paypal if you want me to frag if not i just took what i had on my frag tank. When someone wants to trade I go over their house, see what they offer and I purchase at their price what they want to trade and tell them to go over my house and spend that money. I started doing that after giving someone over 1k in high end zoos and they brought me back $200 in lower end stuff. I have a lot of high end zoos and most people would have a heart attack when i would tell them the price, and I was selling stuff at around 75% lower than online retailers or what i payed for stuff. I don't argue with people if they don't like the price good luck finding the rare stuff i have cheaper. The reality is there's some nasty people out there and all they care about is themselves and can't get in other peoples shoes if their lives depended on it.

I do not know how things were back in the day but based on how things are now this hobby is messed up and you have to act like if everyone is trying to steal from you or take advantage. (Yes there's some genuinely nice hobbyist and I've met a bunch) Never sell alone at the swaps and be informed when you buy stuff.

turbo21 · Jan 15, 2013

Glad to see another copier guy!! I am a service manager for a small kmbs dealership here in pittsburgh

joshporksandwic said:
I've had a copier business for 8 years and my competition asks me for help all the time and I help them without a problem. The same when i need something i go to them.

The aquarium hobby or business is completely different in the one year on the hobby I've never made and lost so many friends in my life lol. Most are too overly sensitive and others will fight for $5. All the businesses hate each other and are always talking bad about each other. I spent a lot of money in 1 year all on very high end z&ps. Luckily I dont know why my tank does really good with zoas and I frag and sell or trade with local people to try to get some $$$ back. I've encountered my share of crazies but most of the people have been very pleasant.

I sold at my first frag swap in december and a lot of people told me they wanted this and that and I told them all paypal if you want me to frag if not i just took what i had on my frag tank. When someone wants to trade I go over their house, see what they offer and I purchase at their price what they want to trade and tell them to go over my house and spend that money. I started doing that after giving someone over 1k in high end zoos and they brought me back $200 in lower end stuff. I have a lot of high end zoos and most people would have a heart attack when i would tell them the price, and I was selling stuff at around 75% lower than online retailers or what i payed for stuff. I don't argue with people if they don't like the price good luck finding the rare stuff i have cheaper. The reality is there's some nasty people out there and all they care about is themselves and can't get in other peoples shoes if their lives depended on it.

I do not know how things were back in the day but based on how things are now this hobby is messed up and you have to act like if everyone is trying to steal from you or take advantage. (Yes there's some genuinely nice hobbyist and I've met a bunch) Never sell alone at the swaps and be informed when you buy stuff.

returnofsid · Jan 15, 2013

I must be hanging out at all the right frag swaps! I've never experienced any negativity at any frag swap I've attended, locally or out of town.

I love going to frag swaps, catching up with people I haven't seen in a long time, meeting new people, making friends...and YES, buying/selling/trading corals.

I've hosted local club frag swaps, at our home, 4 years in a row, each summer. We average 50-60 people at each event.
I've gone to frag swaps in other cities where a couple hundred people were there.

Every frag swap I've ever attended has been a great experience!

jedimasterben · Jan 15, 2013

Unfortunately, this hobby is not staying a hobby. More and more 'hobbyists' are seeing it as a status, 'oh, look at this Joe blow LED super mega ultra coral that I paid $1,000 an inch for, isn't it the best coral ever?!' and those people will get pushy about it because they think that they're better because they have deeper pockets.

A lot of those 'hobbyists' have far more money than sense these days. I know people that have tanks that are solely 1-2" frags in a massive tank, and only some are attached to rocks, usually still attached to frag plugs because 'they're so much easier to pull out when I need to frag them'. As soon as something grows another inch, they cut it off and try and sell it. They say 'isn't my reef so pretty, look at all my nice expensive corals' and their tank looks like complete garbage. They do NOT have a reef tank and they are NOT a hobbyist.

I don't have a problem paying for nice corals - that baseball-sized, pretty-looking 'beginner' birdsnest or montipora that grows like no tomorrow costs $75? Sure, bag it up, but you won't catch me paying ridiculous prices for tiny .5-1" frags of corals because they're 'rare' or 'LE' or 'deepwater' (which aren't, btw, people are just trying to get more money from you, but there are other threads for that discussion).

This collector-itis is going to be the death of this hobby as an actual hobby, I'm afraid. Nano-reefs are becoming more and more popular now because all these blasted named and 'LE' corals are driving up prices on 'regular' corals, too, and true hobbyists can't all afford it like they used to.

I'll stick with my pretty, 'cheap' corals that are large enough to not look so out of place and keep my tank looking like a reef tank should. I don't frag corals, and I really don't plan on it unless they start a war, and even then, it will only be enough to get them to stop fighting. Those pieces won't be sold, but given away or traded.

/rant

Dsdaley77 · Jan 15, 2013

Early on in my reefing experience I had a guy kick me out if his house because I didn't bring him anything for the golf ball sized piece of macro he was giving me. Lol I didn't know any better, now even if I'm just going to check out someone's tank, I bring a "donation" for their tank. I don't expect anything in return and just try to spread the wealth when I can. I have only been to one frag swap and it was lame, there were like 6 people selling stuff I could get at my LFS with out having to listen to the BS. I was a real noob then also and maybe it showed but doesnt explain how they all ended up in the same place lol

joshporksandwich · Jan 15, 2013

Dsdaley77 said:
Early on in my reefing experience I had a guy kick me out if his house because I didn't bring him anything for the golf ball sized piece of macro he was giving me. Lol I didn't know any better, now even if I'm just going to check out someone's tank, I bring a "donation" for their tank. I don't expect anything in return and just try to spread the wealth when I can. I have only been to one frag swap and it was lame, there were like 6 people selling stuff I could get at my LFS with out having to listen to the BS. I was a real noob then also and maybe it showed but doesnt explain how they all ended up in the same place lol

When you go to my house you better bring a big donation!

GeoHawk · Jan 15, 2013

I often sell and don't trade, because I have limited space in my tank and most of my coral our colonies. If not they are small frags that I want to give space to grow into a colony. If I traded all the time I wouldn't have a reef tank I would have a frag tank. If someone wants to trade me new light bulbs, ca/alk, carbon, filters, bucket of salt ect... Then by all means I would trade them, but I use my income from frags to pay for the hobby and keep my wife off my back. Its the only way I could afford it. As the OP stated I think it is important to be nice, play nice, educate, and help others in need, but I don't think that means you can't sell frags to pay of the hobby or whatever else the seller wants to use the money on.

KJAG · Jan 15, 2013

jedimasterben said:
Unfortunately, this hobby is not staying a hobby. More and more 'hobbyists' are seeing it as a status, 'oh, look at this Joe blow LED super mega ultra coral that I paid $1,000 an inch for, isn't it the best coral ever?!' and those people will get pushy about it because they think that they're better because they have deeper pockets.

A lot of those 'hobbyists' have far more money than sense these days. I know people that have tanks that are solely 1-2" frags in a massive tank, and only some are attached to rocks, usually still attached to frag plugs because 'they're so much easier to pull out when I need to frag them'. As soon as something grows another inch, they cut it off and try and sell it. They say 'isn't my reef so pretty, look at all my nice expensive corals' and their tank looks like complete garbage. They do NOT have a reef tank and they are NOT a hobbyist.

I don't have a problem paying for nice corals - that baseball-sized, pretty-looking 'beginner' birdsnest or montipora that grows like no tomorrow costs $75? Sure, bag it up, but you won't catch me paying ridiculous prices for tiny .5-1" frags of corals because they're 'rare' or 'LE' or 'deepwater' (which aren't, btw, people are just trying to get more money from you, but there are other threads for that discussion).

This collector-itis is going to be the death of this hobby as an actual hobby, I'm afraid. Nano-reefs are becoming more and more popular now because all these blasted named and 'LE' corals are driving up prices on 'regular' corals, too, and true hobbyists can't all afford it like they used to.

I'll stick with my pretty, 'cheap' corals that are large enough to not look so out of place and keep my tank looking like a reef tank should. I don't frag corals, and I really don't plan on it unless they start a war, and even then, it will only be enough to get them to stop fighting. Those pieces won't be sold, but given away or traded.

/rant

Would have to disagree on a couple points. That baseball sized "colony" is still in essence, a fragment of a larger piece.The hobbyist who just glued it to the rock in his/her AIO NC28, thus filling 20% of the void in the display and making his" reef tank look like it should" simply picked up a larger fragment of coral for cheaper than what other pieces of coral fetch, for whatever reason that may be. Further, theres many, many expensive pieces that are known to be extremely hard to keep. Being able to keep these corals alive in captivity much less successfully propagating them goes hand in hand with real , defined knowledge of the hobby. That $30 ball of birdsnest is 30 bucks for a reason: it spreads like wildfire. And to the contrary,I don't know if I've ever seen anyone who claims to be a better reefer because of the pieces they own. It's always those who don't choose to pay $ for expensive pieces that seem to throw off a bitter vibe. Nothing will be the death of the hobby because the hobby is what each individual chooses to make of it. I can't speak for everyone but I'm still stoked.

Dsdaley77 · Jan 16, 2013

joshporksandwic said:
When you go to my house you better bring a big donation!

If I was to ever venture down that way with an invite, my guess is you'd be receiving some type of shipment from AZ a day or two prior to my arrival lol

Dragonreef202 · Feb 7, 2013

There's always good & bad when $$ is involved. Just be patient with yourself and let the others battle. Don't forget I have been to card trading shows and people can get real nasty about their favorite player. It's just a card. I have been trying to attend a frag swap I hope I can meet some nice people.