Euphyllia eating fungus?

[StrangeDejavu]

Any idea what I may have been dealing with here? I bought this beautiful torch a month or two ago and since then, it's been the first coral i've lost in my year of reefing. Shortly after it was added to my tank, I noticed the polyps weren't opening fully on one side of the head (which was in the process of splitting). The other side would open completely and fully but this side just stayed about 25% out. I eventually noticed some tissue recession on this side of the head, followed by a small patch of white fuzz where the tissue used to wrap around the skeleton. As the recession got worse, the white fungus did too and almost appeared like it was the cause, like it was feeding on the tissue. I dipped it in Lugol's multiple times and kept it in an area of the tank with low flow away from other corals and it showed no sign of recovery, just kept getting worse. Not wanting to risk brown jelly disease (just bought an $80 rainbow acan, had me freaked out), I finally removed the coral from the tank. Here are some pics, maybe someone can make sense of what i'm seeing. Pics are in chronological order, over the course of about 3 weeks.

What I don't understand is how the 3 other Euphyllia in the tank are fully open, growing and splitting while this one continued to go downhill. The Duncans and Acans are also loving life. Pretty stumped on this one. I took a sample and viewed it under the microscope but I can't access this photo right now since Imgur is down. I'll post it later.

Salinity: 1.026
Temp: 78
pH: 7.8
Cal: 525
Alk: 8.0
Mag: 1500
NO3: 0
PO4: 0

Cal and Mag are high right now, still unsure why. I think I hit a pocket of Reef Crystals that wasn't well stirred during my last WC.

 

[mcarroll]

To me it looks like some king of algae.

Zero PO4 and NO3 are likely to be a problem for these corals. It represents a potential lack of food for them.

Perhaps of more interest, it could also be what's letting that fuzzy stuff take command.....low-PO4 in particular can create some very nasty side-effects. In particular with algae as some varieties get hyper-competetive and/or toxic.

With nothing more to go on, I'd start here.....increase nutrients (either by adding more or removing less) and see what happens. You can find liquid NO3 and PO4 supplements if needed. Start small, go slow with increases, and use a test kit to make sure you're not overdoing anything. Effects usually take a few weeks to show up, so DO NOT RUSH INTO BIG DOSES OF ANYTHING. You might even see results before you see a number on your test kit...that was my experience.

 

[StrangeDejavu]

Zero is what my tests are reading but there's clearly nutrients in the tank since i've been battling hair algae for the last 3 months, it's just locked up. Under the microscope, it looks like bacteria I dunno.

 

[mcarroll]

Exactlty....whatever it is, is fighting hard for the available nutrients. Probably phosphates more than anything.

I don't know if you disposed of the coral or if you still have it in another tank......did you try painting the stuff with hydrogen peroxide? (A dip would be good, but that's really close to the coral polyp and typically they have tissue extending down the polyp skeleton a little ways. Maybe too much/too close for a dip.)

 

[stevo01]

Hydroids?

 

[mcarroll]

More PO4 and more NO3 would allow the Euphillia to start growing and healing at a much faster rate – this is one way they outcompete algae in the wild in many cases. Eventually that stuff will be shaded out and hopefully that will eliminate it.

Hope you still post that photo from the microscope!

 

[mcarroll]

Hydroids?

I was thinking the same thing, but after some searching I haven't seen any photos of hydroids that look like that. In their colonial form they all appear to have a polyp look with little tentacles. Please do post a link or pic if you've seen any like this!

 

[mcarroll]

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/bgacontf12.htm

I think WWM has your ticket on this one....scroll to the bottom post and pics. A blue-green algae mix.....cyanobacteria. Consistent with your observation (I think).

It's still a guess, but if you agree this is your beastie, then I double down on increasing nutrients. Work your way up to 0.05 ppm PO4 and >5 ppm NO3.....slowly and watch for improvement. (You might not have to go all the way up to those numbers....you just shouldn't have to go any higher either...though some folks do.)

 

[ksc]

Keep an eye on it. I had something like years ago and it wiped out all my LPS.

 

[StrangeDejavu]

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/bgacontf12.htm

I think WWM has your ticket on this one....scroll to the bottom post and pics. A blue-green algae mix.....cyanobacteria. Consistent with your observation (I think).

I'd be surprised if it were cyano. I've seen both under a microscope, the common species that most tanks get and spirulina which I just beat a few months ago. What i'm seeing under the microscope looks nothing like cyanobacteria, but more like the bacteria species you find in Microbacter7, Dr. Tim's and such. Then i'm also seeing much larger things that look like nematodes, but are much larger and do not move. I am not seeing the protozoan that makes up brown jelly disease.

As for upping PO4, ehhh, lol. Here's my tank a few weeks ago, was still trying to recover from a near tank crash from when I went out of town a few weeks prior. Came home to a dead Trochus (likely the cause) and lots of spirulina, hair algae and dinos.

I added a Tunze 9001 skimmer, cut my feedings in half, started running GFO, kept running ROX carbon and Purigen, changed filter floss out every 3rd day and kept up with my 25% weekly WCs and yet the algae persisted to levels like you see above. Nutrients were abundant and coming from somewhere so i'm not sure adding them back would add anything but additional headache.

And here are the nematode looking critters. Very large, no movement like a typical nematoda when found under a microscope (lots of squirming and thrashing). The cells in the organism itself were moving like platelets in blood. The cells were also bright green though the picture isn't able to capture the color. I found about 10 of these in the one drop sample I took off the coral skeleton.

Unfortunately, I don't have any pictures of the bacteria I was seeing. Much like it appears in the first set of photos they looked the same under the scope. Extremely small, even at max magnification and looked like splinters of ice, not connected and near invisible. It's the strangest thing. Anyone who's ever dealt with Saprolegnia or Columnaris in freshwater has seen what i'm basically seeing on this coral. I don't know if this fungus exists in saltwater, but in freshwater, saprolegnia (as far as I know) is the white moldy growth you see on uneaten food. Much like BJD, it eats decaying/necrotic matter but can also jump to healthy tissue on stressed fish. Here's a photo of that, it looks exactly the same but on this torch instead.

 

[StrangeDejavu]

Keep an eye on it. I had something like years ago and it wiped out all my LPS.

Oof, that looks rough. I usually watch the tank like a hawk but i'm really observant right now. I'll keep an eye out.

 

[mcarroll]

It is with great reservation that I post this link....post 14 from somewhere else. Can you try that test?

 

[zaekor]

Would love an update on this. I have had a $100 large torch coral die from a fungus/something that looked exactly like this and I would love to know what it is. Subbed.

 

[mcarroll]

Raising them in an uncontrolled manner (where I bet PO4 was depleted) is widely known to be problematic. Some algae even turn toxic in a cycle like that where PO4 crashes to zero.

Raising PO4 and NO3 in a controlled manner shouldn't cause anything like that.

You're not doing if for the algae anyway, you're doing it for the coral to try and save him. A little excess green algae in the process is probably not a bad thing at all. A little cyano too. ("A little" is not an outbreak....a little is perfectly natural...and should be acceptable in the circumstance.)

 

[stevo01]

Maybe try covering it with superglue, or using H2O2 directly on it with a syringe and carefully scrubbing with a toothbrush. I think this is a tiny species of hydroid in a large colony, that are packing a serious sting. Need to get in closer still, but I think I see the little balls on top on some of them.

 

[bios]

That one in the pics si an algae and the green stuff you see inside are chloroplastes .

 

[stevo01]

I'd be surprised if it were cyano. I've seen both under a microscope, the common species that most tanks get and spirulina which I just beat a few months ago. What i'm seeing under the microscope looks nothing like cyanobacteria, but more like the bacteria species you find in Microbacter7, Dr. Tim's and such. Then i'm also seeing much larger things that look like nematodes, but are much larger and do not move. I am not seeing the protozoan that makes up brown jelly disease.

As for upping PO4, ehhh, lol. Here's my tank a few weeks ago, was still trying to recover from a near tank crash from when I went out of town a few weeks prior. Came home to a dead Trochus (likely the cause) and lots of spirulina, hair algae and dinos.

I added a Tunze 9001 skimmer, cut my feedings in half, started running GFO, kept running ROX carbon and Purigen, changed filter floss out every 3rd day and kept up with my 25% weekly WCs and yet the algae persisted to levels like you see above. Nutrients were abundant and coming from somewhere so i'm not sure adding them back would add anything but additional headache.

And here are the nematode looking critters. Very large, no movement like a typical nematoda when found under a microscope (lots of squirming and thrashing). The cells in the organism itself were moving like platelets in blood. The cells were also bright green though the picture isn't able to capture the color. I found about 10 of these in the one drop sample I took off the coral skeleton.

Unfortunately, I don't have any pictures of the bacteria I was seeing. Much like it appears in the first set of photos they looked the same under the scope. Extremely small, even at max magnification and looked like splinters of ice, not connected and near invisible. It's the strangest thing. Anyone who's ever dealt with Saprolegnia or Columnaris in freshwater has seen what i'm basically seeing on this coral. I don't know if this fungus exists in saltwater, but in freshwater, saprolegnia (as far as I know) is the white moldy growth you see on uneaten food. Much like BJD, it eats decaying/necrotic matter but can also jump to healthy tissue on stressed fish. Here's a photo of that, it looks exactly the same but on this torch instead.

Fascinating!

 

[bios]

If you want try to save your torch
Place it where only indirect light

 

[stevo01]

If you want try to save your torch
Place it where only indirect light

Would spot treatment of H2O2 be effective?

 

[bios]

No stev
Those are algae always live in simbiosis with some kinds of LPS Like torch for example
When they find good condition fo r explosion ie light and phospates they cause death of the coral