Evaporative cooling and ph problems....

Troylee

all about the diy!!!!!
View Badges
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
Messages
19,350
Reaction score
17,031
Location
Vegas baby!!!!
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I have always had low ph problems and beat it by topping off with kalk.... With that being said I evap over 5 gal a day yada yada yada.... Never had it dawned on me until a couple days ago when my friend mentioned it that he doesn't use fans to cool his tank in the Vegas heat because all the top off kills your ph..... Just thought I would share..:tongue: something so simple was always over looked hope this helps someone else lol.... Guess I might look into chiller lol...
 
I can see how that makes sense. Assume you're topping off 5 gallons out of 100+ every day... dropping in 7.0 pH water (may or may not be true) wouldn't have a big effect in a single day but over a chronic dosage (daily for months and months) may very likely be a problem. I wonder how the ionic balance works for the evaporated water being replaced with RODI water. I am out in left field a bit here but I don't know how much effect it would truly have.
 
No topping off with just rodi causes the problem.... I beat it with kalk myself.... My deal was I have always had a low ph like 7.9 etc and couldn't raise it for the life of me unless I used kalk... I couldn't figure it it for years why my ph ran low then my buddy was talking about setting a tank up in his garage and I said get some big fans lol... He was like no it causes ph problems when you lose 10gal a day etc.... That is my problem I could never figure out...:tongue: I have 2 fans and lose close to 6 gallons a day on my 70gal cube..
 
If it's is from your ato Hooked up to your kalk reactor then you would want the reactor to mix till it is fully saturated which means 12 ph. Then no matter how much water evaps ph is only ehanced hth
 
With put a reactor yes the ph in the fresh water will put a dent on your stability of ur ph in the sys.
 
I don't have any reactors.... I just had fans cooling my tank with a Jbj ATo pumping in 6gal a day of rodi.... After trying everything to raise my ph kalk in my top off container cured it..... I couldn't figure out the problem is what I'm saying.... My problem was evaporative cooling topping off with straight rodi 5 to 6 gal a day killed my ph "it was the cause" something so simple I always over looked lol..
 
This doesn't make sense. Assuming that you're evaporating water and not losing any salt (from a leak somewhere), topping off with pure RODI water shouldn't be the cause of low pH unless you're putting in MORE water than you've evaporated.
 
From Reverse Osmosis/Deionization Systems to Purify Tap Water for Reef Aquaria by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

Final Effluent pH

Aside from the issues discussed above concerning the effluent’s pH when the DI resin becomes depleted, the final pH coming out of an RO/DI system should not significantly concern reef aquarists. Many aquarists with low pH problems have asked, for example, if their aquarium’s low pH may be caused by their replacing evaporated water with RO/DI water that they measure to have a pH below 7. In short, the answer is no, this is not a cause of low pH nor is it something to be generally concerned about, for the following reasons:
1. The pH of totally pure water is around 7 (with the exact value depending on temperature). As carbon dioxide from the atmosphere enters the water, the pH drops into the 6’s and even into the 5’s, depending on the amount of CO[SIZE=-1]2[/SIZE]. At saturation with the level of CO[SIZE=-1]2[/SIZE] in normal (outside) air, the pH would be about 5.66. Indoor air often has even more CO[SIZE=-1]2[/SIZE], and the pH can drop a bit lower, into the 5’s. Consequently, the pH of highly purified water coming from an RO/DI unit is expected to be in the pH 5-7 range.
2. The pH of highly purified water is not accurately measured by test kits, or by pH meters. There are several different reasons for this, including the fact that highly purified water has very little buffering capacity, so its pH is easily changed. Even the acidity or basicity of a pH test kit’s indicator dye is enough to alter pure water’s measured pH. As for pH meters, the probes themselves do not function well in the very low ionic strength of pure freshwater, and trace impurities on them can swing the pH around quite a bit.
3. The pH of the combination of two solutions does not necessarily reflect the average (not even a weighted average) of their two pH values. The final pH of a mixture may actually not even be between the pH’s of the two solutions when combined. Consequently, adding pH 7 pure water to pH 8.2 seawater may not even result in a pH below 8.2, but rather might be higher than 8.2 (for complex reasons relating to the acidity of bicarbonate in seawater vs. freshwater).
 
Last edited:
I know Randy homes is a smart man, and I am not going to question his science. But I have found that adding unbuffered water in my top off lowers the Ph in my tank. I know every tank is different though. I guess I have just been going on an assumption that if you drop 7.0 water in a 8.3 tank that buffering capacity of the tank has to raise the new water back up, straining the buffering ability of the tank until the ph finally drops and is less able to get back to where it needs to be. Ahhh assumptions….
 
Lee you have to buffer your RODI when topping off with kalk. I use Kent Marine Osmoprep. I had a thread on here about it and Anthony Calfo chimed in and he swore by it.
 
Thanks, VegasRick, for that link. I wish there was more explanation of point 3, but Randy's built enough cred to earn a little faith from me.

skinz78, I found that thread. He actually said the opposite (link) of what you suggested. That is, he said NOT to buffer the feed water to the kalk reactor.
 
Put it this way I'm topping off with almost 10 percent of my water volume daily.... If that's not the root problem to my low ph please explain what is???? I have 120 times turn over rate doors to my house are wide open all day thanks to my kids, surface agitation is at it's max I have a over powered skimmer that runs 24/7..... There is nothing else it can be... The minute I add 3 tsp of kalk to my 10 gal resi it runs at 8.34 day and night constant.... Sorry I'm not gonna agree with Randy on this one...... I don't know all the science behind it like him just what I have observed in person and with my 2 hands....
 
.. There is nothing else it can be....
There are still a lot of possibilities. I would still say co2 is your biggest suspect. While your door opens often you also have all the neighborhood kids in and out of there, playing, running and adding even more co2 to your house. The door usually open goes to your garage and even though the garage door is open its hardly the best source for a breeze of fresh air.

Somewhere in that article it says something about if the di resins are exhausted or close to then it might start driving the pH of the output down.

Because the ph is neutral it is very easily changed either way. So even a small amount of buffer or ca hydroxide can drive it up in the proper range. Kw is a better choice because it takes the co2 in the water and converts it to alk
 
Have you tried degassing the CO2 from your RO/DI water? I know CO2 is an issue in Vegas just as it is in Phoenix due to Colorado River water.
 

IF YOU HAD TO TAKE A REEFING EXAM, WOULD YOU PASS?

  • Yes!

    Votes: 32 45.7%
  • Not yet, but I have one that I want to buy in mind!

    Votes: 9 12.9%
  • No.

    Votes: 26 37.1%
  • Other (please explain).

    Votes: 3 4.3%
Back
Top