Even more kalkwasser questions !

[cracker]

Hello, I've been perusing forums & archives for a while now. Yet couldn't find any specific answers to my "beginner" queries. I have a 75 gl I want to use to improve my coral keeping skills. which I admit are lacking. This tank has been up almost 2 years. Ok so few details. I have a 6 bulb t5 fixture over it for 2 months now. The corals have responded very well to this new lighting. I have 14 lps, anchors,hammers, a couple of favia and one sps. I'm confident I have good lighting. been working on stability & proper levels of alk,Ca etc. A few questions for now. I'm sure more later on.
So do You think these few corals can deplete so much alk & to a lesser degree Ca for fully saturated kalkwasser in "any amounts" to keep up with? Here is the reason I ask. My tank evaporates 1/2 gallon a day and it's not enough to keep up with demands that makes sense. So If I go to a stand alone doser,I'd have to add more than 1/2 gl to keep up which is more than the tank evaporates. Can't do that. A stand alone doser doesn't care about evape rates, so. Again can a 75 gl tank with so few corals really need so much kalkwasser to keep up ? this tells me I have to go to a 2prt doser where I can add more concentrated amount of a2 prt solution. this is something I don't want to do yet...
Am I missing anything here?

ps Thanks for Your patience and basic questions !

 

[robert mcconnell]

Hello, I've been perusing forums & archives for a while now. Yet couldn't find any specific answers to my "beginner" queries. I have a 75 gl I want to use to improve my coral keeping skills. which I admit are lacking. This tank has been up almost 2 years. Ok so few details. I have a 6 bulb t5 fixture over it for 2 months now. The corals have responded very well to this new lighting. I have 14 lps, anchors,hammers, a couple of favia and one sps. I'm confident I have good lighting. been working on stability & proper levels of alk,Ca etc. A few questions for now. I'm sure more later on.
So do You think these few corals can deplete so much alk & to a lesser degree Ca for fully saturated kalkwasser in "any amounts" to keep up with? Here is the reason I ask. My tank evaporates 1/2 gallon a day and it's not enough to keep up with demands that makes sense. So If I go to a stand alone doser,I'd have to add more than 1/2 gl to keep up which is more than the tank evaporates. Can't do that. A stand alone doser doesn't care about evape rates, so. Again can a 75 gl tank with so few corals really need so much kalkwasser to keep up ? this tells me I have to go to a 2prt doser where I can add more concentrated amount of a2 prt solution. this is something I don't want to do yet...
Am I missing anything here?

ps Thanks for Your patience and basic questions !

I have a 60 gal with lots of sps and lps corals as long as i keep up with adding ro every day i just use two part and thats it i check levels weekly and do 10% water changes every other week i have been doing this for 12 years the same way and every thing wotrks well with out useing kalk.

 

[jason2459]

There can definitely be a point in which limewater can't keep up with demand. You could switch entirely to a 2 part or a Calcium reactor. Or a hybrid of a steady dose of limewater separate from the ATO under the evaporation rate and a 2 part to make up the rest.

There's also the possibility your "saturated" limewater isn't truly saturated.
You could be mixing in a lot of CO2, not letting it keep still after initial mixing, or the lime is not good.


You can check it.
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-01/rhf/index.php

From it

Limewater that is saturated with calcium hydroxide has a pH of 12.54 at 25ºC. It is actually recognized as a secondary pH standard. The pH is substantially higher at lower temperature (12.627 at 20ºC and 13.00 at 10ºC), and lower at higher temperature (12.289 at 30ºC; 11.984 at 40ºC). Saturated limewater has a conductivity of about 10.3 mS/cm at 25ºC, and contains about 808 ppm of calcium and 40.8 meq/l of alkalinity. Slightly more calcium and alkalinity dissolve at lower temperatures, and less at higher temperatures. Of interest to chemists, a large fraction of the calcium in saturated limewater is present as the ion CaOH+, with the remainder being Ca++. The CaOH+ will instantly dissociate into Ca++ and OH- upon its addition to aquarium water.

 

[cracker]

Rob,that is a good point . I barely stir and have an o ring sealed container. I have a little precipitation in the bottom of the container. I will check out the link for sure .
Jason, That is what I'm doing now. kalkwasser & 2prt dosing to make up the difference
I'd like to add that during the summer when it's very hot And the house is buttoned up with the ac on I can evape almost a gallon. That was keeping up according to my records. Back then the corals were looking really bad. since I added the new, much improved lighting the coral have come back to life And could be growing thus causing more demand I think.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Without knowing the demand, I wouldn't assume limewater cannot keep up, but it may not be able to, especially if your evaporation is low.

It kept up in my tank for 20 years.

Here's a typical photo from it in 2011:

 

[cracker]

Nice randy, You have/had a lot more corals . I will test tonight & post .

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

Even if you have to dose two-part to keep up with demands, it may still be worth adding calcium hydroxide to your topoff water simply for the pH-elevating effects. Provided your pH is on the low side, that is.

 

[FlyinBryan]

Kalk is the best! I've never seen my corals happier. I started low and worked my way up. I feared ph etc. I'd still do it even with low evap and supplement with alk/ca or 2 part as needed.
All my ranks love kalk!! Good luck!

 

[GoVols]

I will test tonight & post .

Tagging

 

[GoVols]

Without knowing the demand, I wouldn't assume limewater cannot keep up, but it may not be able to, especially if your evaporation is low.

It kept up in my tank for 20 years.

Randy,
When you used the limewater for all those years did you test for and dose trace elements as well?

Thanks, Freddie

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Randy,
When you used the limewater for all those years did you test for and dose trace elements as well?

Thanks, Freddie

I occasionally experimented with trace elements dosing and never saw an apparent effect one way or the other.

I always did about 1% daily water changes with normal IO.

Here's what a Triton test showed:

My Triton Testing Results: By Randy Holmes-Farley
http://www.reefedition.com/my-triton-testing-results-by-randy-holmes-farley/

 

[GoVols]

I occasionally experimented with trace elements dosing and never saw an apparent effect one way or the other.

I always did about 1% daily water changes with normal IO.

Here's what a Triton test showed:

My Triton Testing Results: By Randy Holmes-Farley
http://www.reefedition.com/my-triton-testing-results-by-randy-holmes-farley/

Randy,
I'm glad that you added that you were tumbling GFO and your article is a great read.

As always!!!

Thanks, Freddie

 

[cracker]

Thanks everybody by getting involved here. Please feel free to post answers,questions etc. So out of the blue I didn't see any drop in alk over the last 48 hours. staying at 8.4 However did see a 20 point drop in ca it was 400 now 380. Could be the test/tester. Maybe the ato evaporated more. I will continue to test every 48 hrs & pay attention on how much water I'm losing thru evaporation. I shall return !

 

[GoVols]

I shall return !

...

 

[cracker]

Good evening Ladies & Gentlemen's, So of course the outdoor temps jumped way up into the low 90's. Ac comes on ,tank evapes more water. levels are stable . I realize it's only been a couple of days but It's fairly plain to see.
alk is staying 8.1 8.3 CA right around 400.
However, I'm still stuck in the same spot. Not sure if the cost,etc of setting up a 2/prt doser outweighs keeping an eye on the humidity and having to test & dose everytime it rains for a week. So it's gonna get real hot here in Fl for the next 3/4 months so don't have to worry about it for a while . I'll drop in 2 days with more test reviews and to discuss dosers. Thanks again for sharing OP's !

 

[cracker]

Ok , so I have a big water change,cleaned up the sand bed etc. Next night I tested. M9 1300 alk 9.00 CCa 400 possible issue not sure. Let me break out the log book. So I did a big water change cleaned up the sand bed blasted the rock etc. Tested the next night Mg 1300 Alk 9.0 Ca 400. Pretty good I think. My plan was to test every night & keep track of any drops. No dosing or such. For the 1st 4 days ,levels stayed stable . test 5 alk drops to 8.7 no prob the next day Alk is 8.4, the next 7.0 ! The CA seems to be rising. Oh Lord, I say. Can it drop all of a sudden 2 whole points it 2 days? Maybe it didn't evap that much, I'm not sure. Is the rise in Ca tell Ya anything? I'm determined to figure this out ! Thanks

 

[GoVols]

I'm determined to figure this out ! Thanks

cracker,
I'm still tagging!!!!!!!

 

[cracker]

Thanks Vols ! I used to live in Chattanooga and was a Vols fan. Been in Fla for a long time so I'm a Gator now. I do still have a soft spot in my heart for them !
So ,here is what I got. After 8 days The Alk droped 1 point from 9 to 8. I think the previous tests were inaccurate . I had that issue all week. the 8 days was the time it took for the ATO to go thru 6 gallons.
A 1 point drop in 8 days isn't bad at all. However I don't want "any " drop ! So I tried the vinegar thing. 45 mls per gallon & 3 teaspoons of Mrs Wages. I will test again for the time it takes to run 6 gallons thru the ato .
I'm not ready to invest in a doser of some type if I don't have to. I don't want to dose by hand.( I get more lazy as I get older ! ) So a few questions. What should I look out for with The vinegar? Is it possible to add more vinegar for a more concentrated kalkwasser? Any thing I'm missing? What really gets me is I just don't have that many corals in the tank. I have 20 lps and a couple softies. I just doesn't make sense ! In this case I know I'm missing something !! LOL I must say I'm enjoying the challenge ! Thanks !

 

[cracker]

Last night I did another 25 gallon water change. I just got done testing All levels are back to where I want them( closely matching the RedSea salt). I will test again to see if the vinegar & extra Kalkwasser . Let's see
Mg 1400
Alk 9.00
Ca 450 Little high maybe
So I'm not worrying about zero No3 & Po4 readings. With The HA I have I know there must be some nutrients in there. My earlier worries about poor looking corals must have been due to poor lighting.
Even the lobo is looking much better. Thanks for following and help !

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Ok , so I have a big water change,cleaned up the sand bed etc. Next night I tested. M9 1300 alk 9.00 CCa 400 possible issue not sure. Let me break out the log book. So I did a big water change cleaned up the sand bed blasted the rock etc. Tested the next night Mg 1300 Alk 9.0 Ca 400. Pretty good I think. My plan was to test every night & keep track of any drops. No dosing or such. For the 1st 4 days ,levels stayed stable . test 5 alk drops to 8.7 no prob the next day Alk is 8.4, the next 7.0 ! The CA seems to be rising. Oh Lord, I say. Can it drop all of a sudden 2 whole points it 2 days? Maybe it didn't evap that much, I'm not sure. Is the rise in Ca tell Ya anything? I'm determined to figure this out ! Thanks

If you dosed none, the calcium rise is just test error.

I also expect the alk drop is more steady than you say, but just didn't see it accurately with a test kit.

Don't try to overinterpret day to day "apparent" changes. There is too much test kit error. Look to longer trends.