Everything died

[RtomKinMad]

I am hoping to get a reply from Brew12 since he seems to have a pretty good understanding of electricity. I have some knowledge on electricity and if I understand what he said correctly it is basically impossible for a saltwater fish to get electrocuted.

But now that I think about it I think that the lateral line of fish is used to detect weak electrical impulses so I'm now curious if even though the current cant flow through a fish if the saltwater around them having stray voltage could still effect them.

I don’t know but we didn’t put our hands in the tank before we turned everything off so we didn’t feel anything but my husband did get a really bad pain now that I think of it on his fingers that lasted for a couple of days. We though maybe he got picked by our baby foxfish when we removed it from the powerhead but maybe it was electrical he didn’t have any wounds. ?? We had everything out when we checked for electrical and then replaced everything due to fear but we probably could have kept some of the equipment the pump was bad for sure... it was dead so I think it surged and died released the electricity and changed alk if that’s possible? I still have to read if electricity can change alkalinity??! I’m an ICU nurse and I read and watch for disease and illness like crazy and I listen to what Fordfish, Hotrocks and Humblefish about disease and have gotten really good advice from all them before. That’s how I’m certain if I had disease I could see or lack of oxygen I would have seen the signs. I’m sure an electrical surge depleted oxygen though... that’s good theory. But again I’m no expert. Have only had saltwater for 6-7 years. But seems like we have had a lot happen. Won’t buy another marineland tank.. had two crack now... different places in the house too. Purchased both brand new. Both were covered under warranty. Thank you for your reply and I’m sorry about your tank. For nothing else but your own mental health I’d check the electricity just to see...

 

[RtomKinMad]

If the only animals left alive were hermits then it seems more likely a O2 issue than an electrical issue. I would assume voltage would kill small creatures before large and small creatures would tolerate less available O2 than larger fish? Maybe someone with more biology background might know?

My largest one the purple tang was fine and the small ones gone... the gobi was in the sand... my uneducated electrical experience would think the sand grounded and the gobi was ok. Also maybe the hermits were safe due to shells. Anemones were fine too. Wouldn’t coral be bad if low oxygen??? I did find over 200mmamps of electricity in my tank when we started up the power again. But again I am no expert.

 

[Brew12]

What toxins get released from an electrical device?

I understand that you're saying the water is more conductive than the fish themselves, but wouldn't that mean it is not possible for the fish to be shocked? Because either there is no path to ground, so they cant be shocked, or if there is a path to ground the current will take the path of least resistance and go through the water instead of the fish. If that is the case is the only purpose of a grounding probe to keep a person from making a connection to ground when they stick their hand in the water?

I'm just trying to determine if I do see current between the water and ground if I can assume that is what killed them or not? I hate not knowing because I'm afraid it'll happen again.

There are many toxins that can be released. Most pump motors are made using copper wire. With electricity and saltwater this can break down quickly. Electrical faults can cause high temperature arcs that will melt plastics and rubber. Think of what those smell like and imagine that getting into your water. All sorts of problems can be caused by failed electrical equipment.
This is the main reason I use a ground probe and GFCI combination. As soon as a piece of electrical equipment has an insulation breakdown the ground probe will short that fault to ground and immediately trip the GFCI. This reduces the rate of copper corrosion and prevents heat from breaking down the plastic and rubber next to the fault.

But now that I think about it I think that the lateral line of fish is used to detect weak electrical impulses so I'm now curious if even though the current cant flow through a fish if the saltwater around them having stray voltage could still effect them.

Electricity absolutely can negatively impact a fish. Current takes all paths proportional to the resistance so they can have current running through them, just not enough to stun or kill them. It hasn't been proven, but it has been connected to HLLE. It seems to be able to interfere with their depth control and their ability to navigate (even around a small tank). So electricity isn't harmless to fish, it just isn't likely to cause rapid death to a group of fish.

 

[RtomKinMad]

There are many toxins that can be released. Most pump motors are made using copper wire. With electricity and saltwater this can break down quickly. Electrical faults can cause high temperature arcs that will melt plastics and rubber. Think of what those smell like and imagine that getting into your water. All sorts of problems can be caused by failed electrical equipment.
This is the main reason I use a ground probe and GFCI combination. As soon as a piece of electrical equipment has an insulation breakdown the ground probe will short that fault to ground and immediately trip the GFCI. This reduces the rate of copper corrosion and prevents heat from breaking down the plastic and rubber next to the fault.


Electricity absolutely can negatively impact a fish. Current takes all paths proportional to the resistance so they can have current running through them, just not enough to stun or kill them. It hasn't been proven, but it has been connected to HLLE. It seems to be able to interfere with their depth control and their ability to navigate (even around a small tank). So electricity isn't harmless to fish, it just isn't likely to cause rapid death to a group of fish.

Thank you so much for your explanation. Makes lots of since! We have a Sohal 13 yrs old and over 10” in our 300 gal and she has had bad HLLE that won’t heal.. that’s another tank we found lots of electricity 115mmamps( am I saying that right) anyway our black butterfly pyramid was always black couldn’t see the white I. The same tank. When we removed the 2 powerhead a and electricity back to 0 the butterfly turned white and black again and stayed that way since and maybe the HLLE is looking a little better... I think it didn’t kill my fish in this tank but they were not happy for sure! Thank you for your reply again I appreciate the information sharing and experience. And I intend no argue just stating what happened to us. Thank you

 

[Brew12]

If the only animals left alive were hermits then it seems more likely a O2 issue than an electrical issue. I would assume voltage would kill small creatures before large and small creatures would tolerate less available O2 than larger fish? Maybe someone with more biology background might know?

Almost all tidal pool creatures have some means of dealing with low oxygen levels since tidal pools often suffer from oxygen depletion. Hermit crabs can survive in some very harsh conditions.

 

[RtomKinMad]

Almost all tidal pool creatures have some means of dealing with low oxygen levels since tidal pools often suffer from oxygen depletion. Hermit crabs can survive in some very harsh conditions.

That makes since too. Thank you.

 

[Brew12]

My largest one the purple tang was fine and the small ones gone... the gobi was in the sand... my uneducated electrical experience would think the sand grounded and the gobi was ok. Also maybe the hermits were safe due to shells. Anemones were fine too. Wouldn’t coral be bad if low oxygen??? I did find over 200mmamps of electricity in my tank when we started up the power again. But again I am no expert.

Unless there is significant salt creep, the glass of the aquarium acts like an insulator and prevents current from flowing to ground. This is why I use a ground probe.
In order for current to flow, there needs to be a difference in potential (voltage). The sand is saturated with conductive seawater making it close to the same potential as the rest of the tank. This makes the goby no more or less likely to be shocked than any other fish in the system regardless of location.

However, some gobi's live in very shallow waters and can even survive out of the water for periods of time. It's likely to be less oxygen sensitive than most reef fish.

 

[RtomKinMad]

That makes since too. Thank you.

I apologize to OP I didn’t mean to take over your post. Hope the discussion helps you though. I mean no disrespect to anyone and appreciate everyone’s view points.

 

[Brew12]

Thank you so much for your explanation. Makes lots of since! We have a Sohal 13 yrs old and over 10” in our 300 gal and she has had bad HLLE that won’t heal.. that’s another tank we found lots of electricity 115mmamps( am I saying that right) anyway our black butterfly pyramid was always black couldn’t see the white I. The same tank. When we removed the 2 powerhead a and electricity back to 0 the butterfly turned white and black again and stayed that way since and maybe the HLLE is looking a little better... I think it didn’t kill my fish in this tank but they were not happy for sure! Thank you for your reply again I appreciate the information sharing and experience. And I intend no argue just stating what happened to us. Thank you

Not a problem and glad to help.
Electricity can absolutely cause stress to a fish and anything that can cause stress over a long enough period of time can be fatal to a fish. HLLE and color changes are common reactions to an outside stressor.

 

[RtomKinMad]

Unless there is significant salt creep, the glass of the aquarium acts like an insulator and prevents current from flowing to ground. This is why I use a ground probe.
In order for current to flow, there needs to be a difference in potential (voltage). The sand is saturated with conductive seawater making it close to the same potential as the rest of the tank. This makes the goby no more or less likely to be shocked than any other fish in the system regardless of location.

However, some gobi's live in very shallow waters and can even survive out of the water for periods of time. It's likely to be less oxygen sensitive than most reef fish.

Wow that’s good to know.. thank you. Maybe just luck that some of my fish survived whatever the cause of the other deaths. Here’s the gobi. I thought it died too didn’t come out for two days after the episode. It’s rare to catch his picture! Me Grumpy! Lol

 

[RtomKinMad]

Not a problem and glad to help.
Electricity can absolutely cause stress to a fish and anything that can cause stress over a long enough period of time can be fatal to a fish. HLLE and color changes are common reactions to an outside stressor.

I’m looking at the Sohal now and she does look better. Still has scars on her face. She is the most beautiful fish though! We got her at 10yrs she was sold from LFS and brought back 10 yrs later. We adopted her then. Same with a Koran also 13 +yrs old. We were hoping to give them a good forever home even upgrades to 8’ tank for them. Thank you for your help and information.