everything is brown...

[JamieB]

Hello all

I was hoping somebody could help guide me through an algae issue Im having with a fairly new tank.
This is my first attempt at a reef tank, I just have a tiny 15 Litre nano tank.
The tank finished cycling about 6 weeks ago, levels are all 0 for nitrites, ammonia and nitrates.
I am surprised that nitrates went to 0 as everyone told me with such a small tank nitrates would be difficult to manage.

I have had what I assume is a diatoms bloom for probably 4-8 weeks cant remember exactly how long.
When I clean the glass its brown again within 1 day.
I've read to just do nothing and wait and the phase will pass but then a fish store owner told me i need to take action, that I should have nitrates of 6-8 and at that point diatoms will calm down.

I have light on for 8 hours / day.
I dont have a protein skimmer - as the one with the tank was rubbish and the levels seem fine without it.
I have 2 tiny clowns, 1 orchid dottyback, 1 fire shrimp, 3 Nassarius snails
Everyone has been in the tank for 6 weeks or so.

Could someone please advise:
- is it diatoms, or could it be something else?
- is it ok that its gone on for 4-8 weeks?
- do i need to take action or just wait?

Thanks for your help!
Jamie

 

[SPR1968]

Hi Jamie and Welcome to R2R!!!

Im from Nottinghamshire as well so small world!

It looks like diatoms definitely and to be honest it’s a bit difficult in a tank of that size to say anything other than wait it out.

Its probably caused by silicates in the sand which will eventually burn out.

There are other methods including reactors and media that I use, but I think it would be not be appropriate in a tank of that size.

You could do a few water changes to see if that helps, but only if your using 0 TDS water to prepare the new saltwater otherwise you may ‘fuel’ the situation

You might get away with frequent water changes without a protein skimmer, but just make sure the water parameters are similar. Nano tanks are very difficult to keep stable

 

[JamieB]

Hi Shaun
Thanks for the welcome, yes we midlanders have to stick together!

Thats reassuring to hear its definately diatoms and I just need to wait it out.

As for the water changes - Im using shop bought water at the minute so will buy a TDS meter to check it out.

As for water changes in general, I was doing 2 a week after being told I would need to in such a tiny tank - but in the last 2 weeks Nitrates have dropped to 0.

Is it correct to say I should monitor the Nitrates and only change water when they start to rise above say 8ppm?
Or should I be changing water weekly anyway just as a good practice thing?

Really appreciate your help!
Thanks
Jamie

 

[Auquanut]

Welcome Jamie! Great advice from @SPR1968. I personally would keep up with a 10ish% weekly water change schedule. Sure couldn't hurt. You could also reduce or even eliminate your lighting schedule until you're ready for coral. It might help and the fish won't mind the ambient light.

 

[vetteguy53081]

water changes yes and reduction of white light intensity and add some clean up crew such as:
turbo snail
nassarius snail
blue leg hermits
Cerith snail

 

[Aere]

Hi Shaun
Thanks for the welcome, yes we midlanders have to stick together!

Thats reassuring to hear its definately diatoms and I just need to wait it out.

As for the water changes - Im using shop bought water at the minute so will buy a TDS meter to check it out.

As for water changes in general, I was doing 2 a week after being told I would need to in such a tiny tank - but in the last 2 weeks Nitrates have dropped to 0.

Is it correct to say I should monitor the Nitrates and only change water when they start to rise above say 8ppm?
Or should I be changing water weekly anyway just as a good practice thing?

Really appreciate your help!
Thanks
Jamie

Tds meter would only help if you're checking RO btw. So buy some RO from them to test. That'll let you know what quality of water they are making into salt water. You may be surprised. I tested a few LFS water and they were all complete trash.

 

[SPR1968]

Is it correct to say I should monitor the Nitrates and only change water when they start to rise above say 8ppm?
Or should I be changing water weekly anyway just as a good practice thing?

Really appreciate your help!
Thanks
Jamie

You don’t really want zero nitrates so you could do yes, you just need to try and keep everything stable, stability is the key

As a general guide 5-10 is fine

 

[JamieB]

Welcome Jamie! Great advice from @SPR1968. I personally would keep up with a 10ish% weekly water change schedule. Sure couldn't hurt. You could also reduce or even eliminate your lighting schedule until you're ready for coral. It might help and the fish won't mind the ambient light.

Ok will do, thanks for your advice, much appreciated

 

[JamieB]

water changes yes and reduction of white light intensity and add some clean up crew such as:
turbo snail
nassarius snail
blue leg hermits
Cerith snail

Ok cool. I have 3 nassarius in there which i never see as theyre always under the sand - Im assuming this is expected.. The tank is only 15 litres so didnt want to put too much in, Ill grab another snail or 2. Thanks for your help

 

[JamieB]

Tds meter would only help if you're checking RO btw. So buy some RO from them to test. That'll let you know what quality of water they are making into salt water. You may be surprised. I tested a few LFS water and they were all complete trash.

Yes I heard this about LFS water but dont quite want to commit to my own RO system yet. Later this year Im thinking of a proper size tank and RO system.
I will do this with the RO TDS test though, so I can see what theyre using

Thanks for the advice

 

[JamieB]

You don’t really want zero nitrates so you could do yes, you just need to try and keep everything stable, stability is the key

As a general guide 5-10 is fine

Ok great thanks

 

[brandon429]

you have a fully opposite option here, a no wait all good outcome option


take the tank apart, clean it like we do nano reefs in our 36 page cleaning thread (sand and rocks cleaned of the invader) then put it all back skip cycle.


we would not have to test for a single param. imagine how easy your tank would be, look at this large one from AmaleeC we just did in chat:

 

[JamieB]

Just noticing today

you have a fully opposite option here, a no wait all good outcome option


take the tank apart, clean it like we do nano reefs in our 36 page cleaning thread (sand and rocks cleaned of the invader) then put it all back skip cycle.


we would not have to test for a single param. imagine how easy your tank would be, look at this large one from AmaleeC we just did in chat:

Interesting.... so why wouldn't the diadoms just come back though?

 

[JamieB]

Also, Just noticing today.... the darkest brown patch on the sand definitely has a red colour to it now. Im sure Ive seen somewhere that this means the diadoms phase is ending - anybody know if this is correct? Thanks

 

[KrisReef]

@brandon429 I am fondly naming you the "Alternative Hypothesis" whenever I see your signature come up on a post. (No disrespect intended, sir)
KrisReef

 

[brandon429]

for small tanks we have learned its actually better to rip clean than anything else, due to clouding.

as of now if we reach in the tank and grab sand and drop it, cloud results

same for rocks: twist them mid tank sharply, and a cloud of feed for invasions + actual invaders comes off and casts into the water.

if we use water controls/changes/dosers to kill the brown above, thats in addition to clouding plus new clouding from dieoff.

the only reason rip cleaning didnt originate at the start of the hobby is because nobody understood what filtration bacteria actually do, they stay on surfaces even if we rinse is what they do

rip cleaning isnt harmful in the least, we have thousands of participants now, able to get pics off any recent job to match another. its just not very fun work for 100 gallons. per above, even if someone has a large tank it still works if they're serious enough to execute and follow through.

we literally rinse the sand in tap water for as long as it takes to be clear, then RO water, then put it back into a clean nano with all new water and acclimate the fish back in.

the rocks are cleaned off manually out side the tank and the whole thing goes back without a cycle always.

no cloud means no cycle, and cloud means cycle, its why we dont have to test params in rip cleans we can see if a system has clouding or not with our eyes.

for nanos, no better way exists. de clouding is thinking about future invasions, namely cyano.

thats next up

 

[vetteguy53081]

Start with tds of LFS water. High TDS will contribute to this issue and red is cyano likely.

 

[vetteguy53081]

You may if high be better off with distilled or even refill water at Walmart

 

[JamieB]

for small tanks we have learned its actually better to rip clean than anything else, due to clouding.

as of now if we reach in the tank and grab sand and drop it, cloud results

same for rocks: twist them mid tank sharply, and a cloud of feed for invasions + actual invaders comes off and casts into the water.

if we use water controls/changes/dosers to kill the brown above, thats in addition to clouding plus new clouding from dieoff.

the only reason rip cleaning didnt originate at the start of the hobby is because nobody understood what filtration bacteria actually do, they stay on surfaces even if we rinse is what they do

rip cleaning isnt harmful in the least, we have thousands of participants now, able to get pics off any recent job to match another. its just not very fun work for 100 gallons. per above, even if someone has a large tank it still works if they're serious enough to execute and follow through.

we literally rinse the sand in tap water for as long as it takes to be clear, then RO water, then put it back into a clean nano with all new water and acclimate the fish back in.

the rocks are cleaned off manually out side the tank and the whole thing goes back without a cycle always.

no cloud means no cycle, and cloud means cycle, its why we dont have to test params in rip cleans we can see if a system has clouding or not with our eyes.

for nanos, no better way exists. de clouding is thinking about future invasions, namely cyano.

thats next up

So I must admit Im inching closer to doing the rip clean....
As you can see in new pics, using algae magnets every day to clean diatoms off glass has resulted in layer of algae circulating on water surface. I also have new layer of red cyano around my rock on the sand bed.

So if I do the rip clean where do you expect I would drop into the diatoms > cyano > hair algae > clean aquarium setup cycle? (I'm very new to this but these are the expected steps as detailed in the tank setup guide on this forum)

1. Would you expect diatoms to be gone for good and I would have cyano attack to deal with? or your saying I could potentially skip cyano and hair algae phases?
2. Can I add a bit of new dry rock when I do the rip clean or would this defeat the object of the rip clean?

Thanks so much for your help!
Jamie

 

[brandon429]

Yes it’s indicated here

it would truly shine up, fast.

youd have light growths to tend to afterwards, say monthly but they’re 1% mass compared to current. It will skip cycle reassemble if you can be so thorough as to rinse all clouding. We would link you here, see last two pages

Official Sand Rinse and Tank Transfer thread

Not only do I love that job, I did it in my vase :) so it’s been modeled already/ done your job is just bigger. I’m going to link a thread where nobody listens regarding aiptasia removal, apply this to your mushroom tank. the sand cleaning is already covered here / ridding newly cleaned rocks...

www.reef2reef.com

a thread of two hundred rip cleans.

as you are rinsing the sand, and feel it’s ready, then rinse twenty more times all in cool tap. That clean, partial rinse is harmful. Over rinse is why we are safe for pages. Final rinse is saltwater or ro, then rinsed sand is ready for put back


use all new water, don’t save any old sand it’s total rinse opposite of what the masses say to do.

take the rocks and spray peroxide across the growths, then use a knife tip to scrape down the algae and dislodge it... brushes aren’t as good, pick free the sprayed algae like a rasping animals beak, the knife tip simulates that. Reefs are adapted to it

twist those rinsed worked rocks in old tank water, get the casting off. Be holding your fish in drawn off tank water no clouding as you work

net them back into new water, matching temp and salinity only is what matters. A completely rip cleaned tank will shine, and skip cycle. Lowering light intensity will help to slow regrowth, but that won’t fix clouding. Rip will fix clouding and de-age the reef.

if you do one and it’s thorough I’ll link your work thread here to #2 in the sand rinse thread. Jon M always gets #1 lol for rip cleaning a 120 gallon system five times over with following microbiological assay, icp chemical assay, and the deepest multi ripping of any reef I’ve seen even in nightmares. we are all #2 and after that job lol