Everything new dies!

[eatbreakfast]

If velvet - should they not have a heavy breath before the die? Yes - it can be velvet - but there can be 100 more reasons for it based on the facts in the first post. Is NSW always of good quality because it from the see ? That´s not my experiences. What is the salinity in the aquarium? Do NSW means real NSW or that he runs the aquarium with NSW concentrations?

Sincerely Lasse

Not that there weren't symptoms, but that the op didn't notice any.

Breathing heavy is fairly subjective to untrained ayes.

Ammonia in the water would take a greater cumulative toll on eatablished fishes in motile inverts.

Nitrites aren't an issue in marine environments.

Nitrates would have to be astronomically high to affect fish and would also affect motile inverts first.

Inadequate acclimation would have lethargy as a symptom and would result in fatalities sooner than a week or two.

Imprities in the water would affect motile inverts before fish.

The use of NSW in combination with fish spawning and having motile inverts speaks to a degree of consistency and stability to the system, enough consistency in the parameters that fish won't die in a week or two.

 

[Lasse]

And what´s speaks for velvet more than you can´t find another explanation?

Sincerely Lasse

 

[eatbreakfast]

It's not affecting existing fish.

It's not affecting inverts.

Time frame

Seemingly few if any noticeable symptoms(there are velvet strains that don't preaent obvious symptoms).

 

[fishybizzness]

I do use nsw. This is where I collect it and have been for over a year. As far as salinity, I keep the tank water at 35ppm, same as the nsw I collect. I have tested it numerous times and it always test out perfect. As for the new fish, I acclimate for temp and then put them in the tank. I'm currently in the process of upgrading to a larger tank and I'll be using all my rock and new sand. I will be leaving the new tank fishless with inverts only for the first 2-3 months to build up the bacteria. I shouldn't have too much of a cycle as I'll be using the same rock and sump. I am also setting up a 20 gal quarantine tank for observation of any new fish.

 

[fishybizzness]

I was very close to throwing in the towel but my wife convinced me to continue because she loves to see how much I enjoy the hobby, though that hasn't been the case lately. I also have a local caught night seargeant that has not shown any symptoms of anything.

 

[Lasse]

eatbreakfast

This mean that you think that fish can get a total immunity against parasites that have their reproduction outside the fish body and only parasite the fish because they have to get nutrients for the reproduction. I do not believe that - IMO healthy fish that have a certain level of immune response will manage attacks from few parasites but if they will be attacked of many parasites because one fish did not manage to defeat even one parasite - they will be sick too. If it is velvet - IMO all fish should be sick even these fishes that normally manage few attackers. Many attacker is a stress factor in it self. Let us see it this way - one parasite from the tank survive and fall of one of the newcomers. It vill give around 250 new attackers spread evenly among the fishes - the old manage them because they are few per fish but the newcomer will host - let us say - 2 % of the new parasites - it will give 5 new mature parasites that will rise an attack of 1250 new parasites. 5 parasites does not kill the new fish and now it get 2 % of the new 1250 parasites -> 25 parasites - still not deadly. The next wave will be 6 250 parasites - 2 % will survive at the newcomer - giving 125 mature parasites - next attack wave will be 31 250 attackers - and now I doubt that the old fishes will resist this scenario for a long time. Do not hang up with the figures - the important is the biology of this parasite - if one fish will be affected and don´t manage to fight the parasites - they will soon be so many that they will break the olds resistance.

Another thing - you suggest a QT for the newcomer and prophylactic treatment but in your conditions it is not the newcomer that is the vector - it is the old, "immune" fishes. In this case - you can treat the newcomer how much you want - it will be sick because your assumption is that the parasite is already in the tank.

If your scenario would be true - I would not treat the newcomers at all - only have the for observation and make slowly WC with water from the DT. But with the information we both have from the OP I do not think that your assumption of velvet is true. IMO - it something else - not connected with microorganisms.

Once again - if the problem is infection in an existing tank - it does not help to QT newcomers in order to have them to survive in the new environment.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Lasse]

I was very close to throwing in the towel but my wife convinced me to continue because she loves to see how much I enjoy the hobby, though that hasn't been the case lately. I also have a local caught night seargeant that has not shown any symptoms of anything.

The fish that died - have they been caught locally? The night sergeant - has he/she survived more than 2 weeks?

Sincerely Lasse

 

[fishybizzness]

Some of them have been caught locally. The night surgeon has been in the tank for about a month now.

 

[eatbreakfast]

Lasse-
Fish can and do develop an immunity, but if new fish are introduced within the life cycle of the parasite the parasites continue in the tank.

Also, using NSW can continue to introduce parasites, as can live foods.
However, live foods carry extra benefits long term that bolsters the immune system as a whole, so even if not completely immune a fish's natural defenses are better equipped to withstand attacks from pathogens.

Meanwhile, stresses that come with being caught and placed in a new surrounding impede these defenses.

The existing fish, wrasses and gobies have thicker slime coats, some of the new fish, tangs have thinner slimecoats.

 

[Gweeds1980]

Do we know where the fish originate from that you've bought and died? I know of a case in the UK where fish were purchased from 3 or 4 different LFS, but all had come from the same exporter... death within 2 to 3 weeks, no apparent symptoms and all existing fish fine. Tank params fine, inverts fine.

One fish did survive and was fine - this was a separate purchase and on discussion with the LFS, it had come from a different location.

On investigation it seemed the most likely culprit was cyanide poisoning from unscrupulous collectors and exporters.

Worth checking the origin of those fish which died - the exporter in this case was collecting and exporting from Vietnam and West coast of Philippines.

The smoking gun was that the LFS had several reefers making enquiries as their fish had also died within the similar timeframe.

 

[fishybizzness]

So I added a uv sterilzer along with my ozone I think I have several bases covered. I also stopped using nsw as I want to control any new parasites coming in. I added an orange spotted filefish about 1 1/2 weeks ago because the aptasia were starting to come back. I treated the tank with prazipro for any worms the fish may have. I've also been feeding fresh roe, mussels and small pieces of fresh mahi fillet. Everything seems happy and healthy for now, we'll see..

 

[fishybizzness]

Update-
So I've been pretty consistent with my feeding regimen since I started last year. I always make my own food now consisting of fresh mahi roe, mussels, squid, octopus,shrimp,a little new life spectrum pellets and selcon. I usually feed a little pellets with an auto feeder in the morning and some of my mixture in the late afternoon when I get home from work. I also add live mycid shrimp occasionally. I haven't lost any fish since I started this schedule. I added a small Atlantic doctor fish awhile back to help with some algae and saw one or 2 spots at first but they went away and haven't seen any since. It eats like a pig! I run my uv at night for about 8 hours. Not sure if it's the feeding, uv ozone or all of the above but things have stabilized very well.

 

[fishybizzness]

My food combo!

 

[fishybizzness]

Current fts.

 

[RamsReef]

Awesome

 

[Dom]

The only thing I noticed was that the fins on the filefish were a little frayed but I found the Arrowhead crab eating it so I figured that could have been the cause.

How big is the tank? Perhaps a territorial issue? Established fish killing new arrivals?

 

[fishybizzness]

It's a 55 gallon.