Eye infection, please help!!!

[MnFish1]

@HotRocks - have you seen flukes do this to one eye - with no other evidence on gills, etc - I recently had a fish that developed this very suddenly - at first I thought it was a trauma of some kind. It certainly didnt have flukes..... In the end it was a bacterial infection. But it also went away without any treatment - I couldnt catch it - but buy the time I could it had nearly resolved. I agree with the maracyn

 

[MnFish1]

It seems there is a hole in the cornea of the eye and possibly the gel that's coming out is the vitreous humour and/or the lense. Sorry but I believe the vision has been lost. Good luck.

I also had this in a discus a couple of weeks ago - looked exactly like this - it took 3 weeks - but the eye completely recovered. In freshwater - one recommendation is to 'add salt' which was the only treatment given. Ironically - this was in a tank with just 2 fish - bare bottom - a breeding pair. A week later the other fish developed a cloudy eye - (after I had changed the water ) - I re-added salt and it recovered with no problems. Neither one seems to have any vision loss. I was amazed - (the eye looked at least as bad as the angel from the OP)

 

[Coral Keeper]

Hmm.. Interesting... @MnFish1 I hope my angelfish makes a full recover like your Discus...

 

[Manthanol]

That would be the best outcome for the OP. What really worries me is the gel coming out, it's too clear and firm to be some type of discharge. Did your discus have gel coming out like the OP?

 

[HotRocks]

@HotRocks - have you seen flukes do this to one eye - with no other evidence on gills, etc - I recently had a fish that developed this very suddenly - at first I thought it was a trauma of some kind. It certainly didnt have flukes..... In the end it was a bacterial infection. But it also went away without any treatment - I couldnt catch it - but buy the time I could it had nearly resolved. I agree with the maracyn

In short yes, I have. However there was a fish that shared the tank that the flukes were causing damage elsewhere which is how I figured it out. Flukes tend to like the eyes for whatever reason.

 

[MnFish1]

In short yes, I have. However there was a fish that shared the tank that the flukes were causing damage elsewhere which is how I figured it out. Flukes tend to like the eyes for whatever reason.

Do you think the flukes go in from the 'inside' of the eye or the outside. The reason I ask is behind the eye is usually notorious for not being reachable by antibiotics dips, etc.

 

[Coral Keeper]

So, the parameters in the QT is as follows:

Tempuratur: 70F - 73F range
Salinity: 1.024
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 2.5 (my reef tank isn't even this low lol)
Copper: 0.00 - 0.03 ppm (I used to have chelated copper (Copper Power) in this tank before, must have soaked up into the silicone, etc and is now leaking tiny amounts)

Should I lower the salinity? Or it wont really help with anything?

 

[MnFish1]

So, the parameters in the QT is as follows:

Tempuratur: 70F - 73F range
Salinity: 1.024
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 2.5 (my reef tank isn't even this low lol)
Copper: 0.00 - 0.03 ppm (I used to have chelated copper (Copper Power) in this tank before, must have soaked up into the silicone, etc and is now leaking tiny amounts)

Should I lower the salinity? Or it wont really help with anything?

Seems to me your temp is a bit too low?

 

[Coral Keeper]

Seems to me your temp is a bit too low?

From what I've read, keeping the QT tank at these lower tempuratures is better, increases disolvedoxygen levels in water, slowls down the metabolismt of the fish, slows down disease reproduction/metabolism as well and decreases bacterial reproduction/spreading.

 

[Coral Keeper]

Found these quotes in some QT posts:

Also, lower temp reduces the metabolic demands on a sick fish, and decreases damage from it's immune response. Basically, it slows everything down (including probably the parasite's lifecycle) which buys you more time to treat.

IMO it's better to run QT temp on the low end. Oxygenation of the water is higher at lower temps. So high end temp range + meds is going to be harder to achieve proper o2 level. I keep my QTs around 76 degrees.

I don't know if temp one way or the other has much of an impact on parasites, but it doesn't really matter anyway if you are medicating to remove them.

 

[Gareth elliott]

Do you think the flukes go in from the 'inside' of the eye or the outside. The reason I ask is behind the eye is usually notorious for not being reachable by antibiotics dips, etc.

Unless the medication is given orally the medications should be absorbed through the lens like they are prescribed to humans. Though not many antibiotics readily pass this barrier, might be why not many fish antibiotics work for eye infections either.

There are some eye worms that effect freshwater fish that i know the mode of action of prazi does not effect. The ones all the fish behavior studies on written on.
I am unaware these are present in saltwater fish as i think all require 3 hosts, specific snails, birds and fish.

A rally bath may be helpful if eye flukes are present that are prazi immune.

Side point omg human eye antibiotics are insanely expensive [emoji38]

Was prescribed Besivance about 5 years ago. When filled at the pharmacy there was some sticker shock for the $400 eye drops [emoji23]

 

[MnFish1]

Unless the medication is given orally the medications should be absorbed through the lens like they are prescribed to humans. Though not many antibiotics readily pass this barrier, might be why not many fish antibiotics work for eye infections either.

There are some eye worms that effect freshwater fish that i know the mode of action of prazi does not effect. The ones all the fish behavior studies on written on.
I am unaware these are present in saltwater fish as i think all require 3 hosts, specific snails, birds and fish.

A rally bath may be helpful if eye flukes are present that are prazi immune.

Side point omg human eye antibiotics are insanely expensive [emoji38]

Was prescribed Besivance about 5 years ago. When filled at the pharmacy there was some sticker shock for the $400 eye drops [emoji23]

Yes - I was under the impression - though - that the concentration in 'drops' was far higher than what you would put into a tank for example as a bath. Im not sure about that though

 

[MnFish1]

Found these quotes in some QT posts:

Yes - you were saying you kept your tank at 70-73. @HotRocks recommended 76. I dont know what @Humblefish thinks.
I agree that oxygen saturation is higher with a lower temperature - and that 'everything slows down' - but at least according to one article I found so does the immune response. I was only suggesting that 70 is perhaps a bit on the low side. hope the fish improves in any case. good luck

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29165340
As poikilothermic vertebrates, fish can experience changes in water temperature, and hence body temperature, as a result of seasonal changes, migration, or efflux of large quantities of effluent into a body of water. Temperature shifts outside of the optimal temperature range for an individual fish species can have negative impacts on the physiology of the animal, including the immune system. As a result, acute or chronic exposure to suboptimal temperatures can impair an organisms’ ability to defend against pathogens and thus compromise the overall health of the animal.

(paraphrased). Changes as low as 3C can significantly decrease antibody production to Ich in channel catfish - and have no effects in other species.

 

[Coral Keeper]

Would it be a good idea to give the fish another 90 minute Acriflavine MS bath? Or should I go out and buy Ruby Reef Rally specifically and give the fish a bath in that since it also has aminoacridine (another antiseptic) and a small amount of formalin? Or leave the fish be?

 

[Coral Keeper]

Yes - you were saying you kept your tank at 70-73. @HotRocks recommended 76. I dont know what @Humblefish thinks.
I agree that oxygen saturation is higher with a lower temperature - and that 'everything slows down' - but at least according to one article I found so does the immune response. I was only suggesting that 70 is perhaps a bit on the low side. hope the fish improves in any case. good luck

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29165340
As poikilothermic vertebrates, fish can experience changes in water temperature, and hence body temperature, as a result of seasonal changes, migration, or efflux of large quantities of effluent into a body of water. Temperature shifts outside of the optimal temperature range for an individual fish species can have negative impacts on the physiology of the animal, including the immune system. As a result, acute or chronic exposure to suboptimal temperatures can impair an organisms’ ability to defend against pathogens and thus compromise the overall health of the animal.

(paraphrased). Changes as low as 3C can significantly decrease antibody production to Ich in channel catfish - and have no effects in other species.

Hmm... true and good points.. but the Watanabei angelfish are deep water fish and are usually found in 20m - 100m deep water.. which means lower tempuratures as well right? But I'm not sure..
@Humblefish @HotRocks What are your guys opinions on how cold I should keep the QT?

 

[MnFish1]

Hmm... true and good points.. but the Watanabei angelfish are deep water fish and are usually found in 20m - 100m deep water.. which means lower tempuratures as well right? But I'm not sure..
@Humblefish @HotRocks What are your guys opinions on how cold I should keep the QT?

I would tend to keep at the point the place you bought it from but thats just my opinion.

 

[Coral Keeper]

Just took these pictures..

 

[HotRocks]

Would it be a good idea to give the fish another 90 minute Acriflavine MS bath? Or should I go out and buy Ruby Reef Rally specifically and give the fish a bath in that since it also has aminoacridine (another antiseptic) and a small amount of formalin? Or leave the fish be?

I would leave it be.

70-73 Degrees is a little on the low end. As mentioned above the lower temps slow everything including the immune system down. My preference is 76. Nice mid range temp, plenty of oxygen and leaves some room for error if you get into a situation where temp may fall like a failed heater or power outage in the winter time.

 

[Coral Keeper]

It looks like the eye is getting worse? The only change I've done/change today was to increase the temperature to 75F - 76F..

 

[ngoodermuth]

I’m not an expert in eye trauma since most of the eye issues I’ve seen were either flukes and/or strictly bacterial.

It looks as though the eye was damaged, and formed a corneal ulcer. Treatment is still erythromycin, and time... but there is a good chance this might not end well for that eye... or the fish if the infection spreads.

Is she eating still? Besides continuing the antibiotics, I’d say keep activity and lighting to a minimum... ambient light only. Try to disturb her as little as possible.