Fairy dead in QT, help me improve

[OscarHaglund]

Hi everyone. Today i found my new fairy wrasse dead in QT.
I do a tank transfer protocol using 2 large tubs of water.
Fish had been in there for less than 3 days.
I have been feeding several times as a day and I have seen it eating. I run a wavemaker to keep the food suspended and an airstone.
I dose prime once per day to deal with the ammonia. The slarias fascatus in the same QT is still alive and i have not seen any agression.
I have heard fairies are poor shippers (transit was only 1.5 hours in my backpack).
I don’t see any visible signs of disease so if it died from stress I am desperate to improve my QT protocol to prevent this from happening again.

 

[OscarHaglund]

I have put 2 clowns, a springeri damsell, 1 ywg and one firefish through this protocol before. So i know it can work for some fish

 

[gbroadbridge]

Hi everyone. Today i found my new fairy wrasse dead in QT.
I do a tank transfer protocol using 2 large tubs of water.
Fish had been in there for less than 3 days.
I have been feeding several times as a day and I have seen it eating. I run a wavemaker to keep the food suspended and an airstone.
I dose prime once per day to deal with the ammonia. The slarias fascatus in the same QT is still alive and i have not seen any agression.
I have heard fairies are poor shippers (transit was only 1.5 hours in my backpack).
I don’t see any visible signs of disease so if it died from stress I am desperate to improve my QT protocol to prevent this from happening again.

Were you doing water changes as well?

If Prime has any effect on Ammonia at all, it is extremely short lived.

 

[OscarHaglund]

Were you doing water changes as well?

If Prime has any effect on Ammonia at all, it is extremely short lived.

Water changes when transfering every 3 days.
I was under the impression that dosing prime every 24 would control ammonia as per this thread https://humble.fish/community/index.php?threads/hybrid-ttm-unique-method-and-questions.6790/

 

[gbroadbridge]

Water changes when transfering every 3 days.
I was under the impression that dosing prime every 24 would control ammonia as per this thread https://humble.fish/community/index.php?threads/hybrid-ttm-unique-method-and-questions.6790/

It seems Prime does nothing to ammonia.

See post #16 in this thread.

Does Prime actually "Detoxify" free ammonia, NH3?

This started when @Dan_P was looking at measuring NH3 with seneye and was curious about performance near zero NH3. I suggested trying Prime to artificially zero out the NH3 sensor, and the results were weird... so I checked with my seachem kit. Prime by Seachem is commonly used to treat tap...

www.reef2reef.com

I wouldn't use it for that purpose. As a dechlorinator yes, but not for ammonia.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Prime is an alternative and not solution
Ultimately, you want to monitor water quality and change water accordingly
TTM , if water conditions and ph are not the same, there is risk of osmotic shove , reason why TTM for Nevis last resort
Oxygen I believe is the issue especially with quarantine systems utilizing minimal filtration
TTM also is a method to alleviate disease not quarantine and would be a transfer every 3 days, not daily

 

[OscarHaglund]

It seems Prime does nothing to ammonia.

See post #16 in this thread.

Does Prime actually "Detoxify" free ammonia, NH3?

This started when @Dan_P was looking at measuring NH3 with seneye and was curious about performance near zero NH3. I suggested trying Prime to artificially zero out the NH3 sensor, and the results were weird... so I checked with my seachem kit. Prime by Seachem is commonly used to treat tap...

www.reef2reef.com

I wouldn't use it for that purpose. As a dechlorinator yes, but not for ammonia.

Huh, thats really news to me. Will have to change my protocol accordingly. Shame i had to loose such a nice fish to find out

 

[OscarHaglund]

Prime is an alternative and not solution
Ultimately, you want to monitor water quality and change water accordingly
TTM , if water conditions and ph are not the same, there is risk of osmotic shove , reason why TTM for Nevis last resort
Oxygen I believe is the issue especially with quarantine systems utilizing minimal filtration
TTM also is a method to alleviate disease not quarantine and would be a transfer every 3 days, not daily

How would oxygen be a problem with both an airstone and a wavemaker?

 

[OscarHaglund]

So what about seeding a set of 4 rocks in the sump for a month and a half then using one rock each in every step of ttm?
This way there would both be some biological filtration as well as a rock for them to attach to during night when sleeping. Might destress the wrasses a bit as well

 

[gbroadbridge]

So what about seeding a set of 4 rocks in the sump for a month and a half then using one rock each in every step of ttm?
This way there would both be some biological filtration as well as a rock for them to attach to during night when sleeping. Might destress the wrasses a bit as well

I just keep some filter wool in the sump all the time, in case I need to set up a QT or hospital tank. I just chuck a piece in a hob filter for an instant bio filter - doesn't take much for a small fish.

 

[old salt reefer]

I'll throw in my 2 cents. Maybe the fish was on it's way out when you bought it and nothing you did could have saved it. Don't beat yourself up over it. The other fish in QT is doing well right.

 

[vetteguy53081]

How would oxygen be a problem with both an airstone and a wavemaker?

If ammonia elevated, oxygen is reduced

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Hi everyone. Today i found my new fairy wrasse dead in QT.
I do a tank transfer protocol using 2 large tubs of water.
Fish had been in there for less than 3 days.
I have been feeding several times as a day and I have seen it eating. I run a wavemaker to keep the food suspended and an airstone.
I dose prime once per day to deal with the ammonia. The slarias fascatus in the same QT is still alive and i have not seen any agression.
I have heard fairies are poor shippers (transit was only 1.5 hours in my backpack).
I don’t see any visible signs of disease so if it died from stress I am desperate to improve my QT protocol to prevent this from happening again.

Sorry to see. As mentioned new fish can die from a variety of issues, and it is often difficult to determine after the fact.
I think it is imperative to measure ammonia and keep it below 0.25 using bacteria or water changes. I only use ammonia binders in an emergency.
I am not a big fan of the tank transfer method; it is very stressful to move the fish so often, ammonia is hard to control, and the method does not manage parasites that don’t leave the fish. My quarantine protocol is at the top of the fish disease section here.
Jay

 

[OscarHaglund]

I'll throw in my 2 cents. Maybe the fish was on it's way out when you bought it and nothing you did could have saved it. Don't beat yourself up over it. The other fish in QT is doing well right.

Sorry to see. As mentioned new fish can die from a variety of issues, and it is often difficult to determine after the fact.
I think it is imperative to measure ammonia and keep it below 0.25 using bacteria or water changes. I only use ammonia binders in an emergency.
I am not a big fan of the tank transfer method; it is very stressful to move the fish so often, ammonia is hard to control, and the method does not manage parasites that don’t leave the fish. My quarantine protocol is at the top of the fish disease section here.
Jay

Im using tank transfer because
#1 afaik it’s impossible to get kelated copper (like copper power) in europe and the other version seems too difficult to deal with maintaining the proper concentrations.
#2 i seem to recall that wrasses are extra sensitive to copper

If anyone knows where to get copper power or similar in europe that would be useful

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Im using tank transfer because
#1 afaik it’s impossible to get kelated copper (like copper power) in europe and the other version seems too difficult to deal with maintaining the proper concentrations.
#2 i seem to recall that wrasses are extra sensitive to copper

Ah, yes you don’t want to use ionic copper on wrasse. Copper power would be fine, but not sure how you could get it.
Have you considered hyposalinity? That at least works for flukes as well as ich.
Jay

 

[OscarHaglund]

Ah, yes you don’t want to use ionic copper on wrasse. Copper power would be fine, but not sure how you could get it.
Have you considered hyposalinity? That at least works for flukes as well as ich.
Jay

I read some other threads about there being hypo resistent ich strains as well as wrasses being sensitive to hypo (then again they seem to be sensitive to everything, which is a shame since my plan was to get several)

 

[OscarHaglund]

I'll throw in my 2 cents. Maybe the fish was on it's way out when you bought it and nothing you did could have saved it. Don't beat yourself up over it. The other fish in QT is doing well right.

The lawnmover is still hiding, so at least its consistent… before today I would have said the wrasse was doing better

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I read some other threads about there being hypo resistent ich strains as well as wrasses being sensitive to hypo (then again they seem to be sensitive to everything, which is a shame since my plan was to get several)

There are some lower salinity Cryptocaryon in Asian aquaculture, but aquarium strains are dealt with at a specific gravity of 1.009 Wrasse are not more sensitive to hyposalinity, but fairy and flasher wrasses are more delicate overall. As I said, coppersafe is better, hypo would just be a second choice.
Jay

 

[OscarHaglund]

I did a total ammonia test on the tank water that the fish died in and it registered a little north of 0.25 using salifert so that seems like a likely culprit. I trusted prime when it seems I shouldn’t have.
I will test daily from now on just to be sure.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I did a total ammonia test on the tank water that the fish died in and it registered a little north of 0.25 using salifert so that seems like a likely culprit. I trusted prime when it seems I shouldn’t have.
I will test daily from now on just to be sure.

0.25 shouldn't kill the fish swiftly, but perhaps it was higher than that before you added the Prime?

Jay