Feedback on Plumbing layout

[Reefs and Geeks]

I'm excited to have my plumbing mostly set up for my basement sump, but wanted to get any feedback on it before I start to glue. I'm at least going to glue the return line so I don't have any connections blowing off from pressure. Not sure If I'll test the drain lines before gluing or not.

This is a herbie style drain with one full siphon and one emergency/trickle drain. The full siphon line being the one with the ball valve (will be replaced with a gate valve in near future), and the line next to it is the emergency drain. The third line is the return pump line. I have a DC return pump, so I can use that to help fine tune the return rate untill I can get a gate valve to fine tune the drain rate.

I'm eventually going to put a filter pad at the drain outlet, but not sure how I'm going to do that just yet. I had a storage container that fit perfectly like a lid in the sump section, but was apparently brittle plastic and cracked apart when I tried to drill it.

 

[keystoneckp]

Looks nice, but I would add a couple of unions to be able to take it apart if needed

 

[ScottB]

Always unions. Particularly on the return.

Might also think of building a manifold (with unions) to drive a UV, reactor, chaeto tumblr, whatever.

 

[WVNed]

Build a table. Get it up off the floor. You back will thank you for years to come.

 

[Reefs and Geeks]

Good Advice, I will Add some unions so stuff can be taken apart if needed. My thought on them was I can install piping as is now, then when I inevitably need to remove a pipe for some reason, I'll just cut it and glue in a union to put it back together. Not sure if that's the best plan or if I should anticipate what will need taken apart and do it now.

Always unions. Particularly on the return.

Might also think of building a manifold (with unions) to drive a UV, reactor, chaeto tumblr, whatever.

Thanks for mentioning the manifold and UV! How could I have forgotten I am running a UV now? I will for sure add a spot for that, and other equipment to run off the return line. Or I may possibly run them off a seprate pump that I will eventually use to supply a frag tank which will share the same sump.

 

[Reefs and Geeks]

Build a table. Get it up off the floor. You back will thank you for years to come.

I was originally going to do that, but I plan on adding a few frag tanks in the basement, and needed the sump to be low enough to allow the frag tanks to drain into the sump. I'll probably put an office chair nearby or something that I can wheel over when needed to do any work in the sump that will take more than a few minutes.

 

[foxt]

I like the suggestions you have gotten so far. I understand your point about the table and frag tanks, but you could still slightly elevate the sump and make that work. Would at least make it easier to siphon all of the water out of it if/when you need to do that. But if you are going to leave the tank on the floor, I would at least put some rigid insulation under and maybe around it to create a thermal break.

I have a basement sump, and the other thing I would recommend is putting ball valves on at least the return so that when you have to do something at the sump that requires you to shut down the return pump you can keep the DT from draining back to the sump. You can kill two birds with one stone and use true union ball valves. I also have them on my drain lines, figured since I was putting unions in I might as well spend the extra and go with ball valves. I don't think I've ever actually shut those off though - just the return valve.

Only other thing I see compared to my setup: Are you planning to run reverse schedule lighting over a fuge? Thoughts about how you would mount the lights?

 

[AZMSGT]

Install a roller filter.

 

[sarcophytonIndy]

I was originally going to do that, but I plan on adding a few frag tanks in the basement, and needed the sump to be low enough to allow the frag tanks to drain into the sump. I'll probably put an office chair nearby or something that I can wheel over when needed to do any work in the sump that will take more than a few minutes.

Another reason to get it off the floor, even if only by a couple feet, is to reduce the head pressure. In any case, you are going to need quite a substantial return pump to get much flow up to the display.

 

[foxt]

It's a good point about head pressure. Did you need some confirmation of your target return flow, piping size, pump selection, etc, or is that all worked out? In my case, I wanted about 1200gph for return flow rate, and had to use 1.5" pipe to push that up from my basement. Some DC pumps don't do too well with high head pressure, but maybe you've covered all that already ...

 

[pdxmonkeyboy]

I built a simply box for my skimmer and socks on the same table as my frag tank. It empties into a 100 gallon fuge tote on the ground...as does the frag tank.

I would attach the pvc securely to the wall!

 

[Reefs and Geeks]

I like the suggestions you have gotten so far. I understand your point about the table and frag tanks, but you could still slightly elevate the sump and make that work. Would at least make it easier to siphon all of the water out of it if/when you need to do that. But if you are going to leave the tank on the floor, I would at least put some rigid insulation under and maybe around it to create a thermal break.

I have a basement sump, and the other thing I would recommend is putting ball valves on at least the return so that when you have to do something at the sump that requires you to shut down the return pump you can keep the DT from draining back to the sump. You can kill two birds with one stone and use true union ball valves. I also have them on my drain lines, figured since I was putting unions in I might as well spend the extra and go with ball valves. I don't think I've ever actually shut those off though - just the return valve.

Only other thing I see compared to my setup: Are you planning to run reverse schedule lighting over a fuge? Thoughts about how you would mount the lights?

I like the idea of a ball valve on the return pump, I'll do that

I am planning on running a reverse schedule for the fuge. Hadn't quite figured out what to do about hanging the light yet. May just hang off long rope from the ceiling

Install a roller filter.

Would love a rolermat, but not in the budget yet. I am only spending money on the hobby that I get from selling frags or other reef related stuff, so am limited on what I can do. Eventually though. I was able to pay for the 125 gallon tank, return pump, skimmer, live rock, plumbing, and fuge lighting with money strictly from the hobby and still had enough left over to go to a couple of frag swaps. Hoping that I'll be able to keep selling more and more frags to keep growing my hobby.

Another reason to get it off the floor, even if only by a couple feet, is to reduce the head pressure. In any case, you are going to need quite a substantial return pump to get much flow up to the display.

I was worried at first about the head height, and settled on the DCP-18000 pump, which is rated for 30' of head. I have about 12' of vertical height, total of 18' of pipe including the vertical climb and (5) 90's and (2) 45's all in 1" sch40 pipe. I'm not sure what sort of flow I can expect to get out of it with that set up, but if I can get 2X or more turnover I'll be happy.

It's a good point about head pressure. Did you need some confirmation of your target return flow, piping size, pump selection, etc, or is that all worked out? In my case, I wanted about 1200gph for return flow rate, and had to use 1.5" pipe to push that up from my basement. Some DC pumps don't do too well with high head pressure, but maybe you've covered all that already ...

Would be nice to get a second opinion on expected flowrate. I have a DCP-18000 pump, which is rated for 30' of head. I have about 12' of vertical height, total of 18' of pipe including the vertical climb and (5) 90's and (2) 45's all in 1" sch40 pipe. I'm not sure what sort of flow I can expect to get out of it with that set up, but if I can get 300gph or more I'll be happy.

I built a simply box for my skimmer and socks on the same table as my frag tank. It empties into a 100 gallon fuge tote on the ground...as does the frag tank.

I would attach the pvc securely to the wall!

I have been trying to think of a good way to secure the PVC form the return line. I didn't want to drill any holes in the wall because I just put 8 coats of dryloc, primer, and paint on the wall to help mitigate water seapage and don't want to compromise that with drill holes. The drain lines are held in place by the bulkheads at the sump, and in the holes in the floor above. The return currently is mounted at the outlet of the pump and will be mounted to the frame of the display tank on the floor above. Would be nice to have a way to mount somewhere in the middle for more support.



Thanks all for the replies! getting some valuable input!

 

[Tjm23slo]

Is it 1" in both directions? I am listening intently, as I have a DCP 18000 and will be doing the same. I only have a 45G upstairs or 500PH gets me 10+x turnover. May go to 90G later but no the less.

I want a gate valve on main drain line at the display tank for tuning the flow. I like the idea of the ball valves on the drain lines in the basement too. Like electric on a stairwell, you can't have too many switches. I have a 5" platform to keep the tank off the concrete as the concrete sucks heat out quickly.

I think I'll be plumbing upstairs around Christmas or a little earlier. Assuming I can get my basement system plumbed and watertight.

 

[foxt]

Would be nice to get a second opinion on expected flowrate. I have a DCP-18000 pump, which is rated for 30' of head. I have about 12' of vertical height, total of 18' of pipe including the vertical climb and (5) 90's and (2) 45's all in 1" sch40 pipe. I'm not sure what sort of flow I can expect to get out of it with that set up, but if I can get 300gph or more I'll be happy.

There doesn't seem to be a flow curve for the CDP-18000 that goes above 3m of head. You have about 14ft of head at the flow rate you are targeting. This calculator is handy for figuring out the additional head due to your pipe size, etc.

Liquid Friction Pressure Loss

Based on what I can see of the curve that is available, it looks like you will get at least 2x of your target with your setup

 

[ScottB]

@Reefs and Geeks
"Would be nice to get a second opinion on expected flowrate. I have a DCP-18000 pump, which is rated for 30' of head. I have about 12' of vertical height, total of 18' of pipe including the vertical climb and (5) 90's and (2) 45's all in 1" sch40 pipe. I'm not sure what sort of flow I can expect to get out of it with that set up, but if I can get 300gph or more I'll be happy."

I found this handy head pressure calculator when building out my 240G frag system. Really helpful in sizing my pump accordingly. (Don't include horizontal distance in the calc.) I had to review my inputs a couple times, but by the end it put me into the correct pump. Your pump should have a published table of head loss to GPH in the manual.

Pump Calculator | Pentair AES

Pentair is dedicated to excellence in all aspects of our business. Whether you need system design, technical service or unrivaled equipment-you can count on us.

pentairaes.com

 

[ScottB]

Haha @foxt you beat me to it!

 

[sarcophytonIndy]

Not to be a pessimist, but from what I've heard, people generally get much less flow than they were expecting from DC pumps with high head pressure. That being said, 300 gph is not a lot to expect.

 

[pdxmonkeyboy]

Screw a 2x4 to the wall, coat the screws with silicone. Then use plastic pipe clamps to attach pipe to wall.

You will get more moisture in the walls from your outlets then you will from a screw in the wall.

 

[Reefs and Geeks]

I got my sump fired up over the weekend and am happy with the flow I'm getting so far. I have the pump turned down to 36 watts (130W max) and am getting about 200 gph at the display. I am going to crank up the flow after I reconfigure my drain inlets in the display to run herbie style. At the moment, they are both running as overflow drains so not able to handle much flow without making noise. Once I set the one line as a full siphon, I'm sure I'll be able to get alot more flow through.

For mounting the return line, I ended up cutting some longer pipe so the line would run across the wall, and I used some cable tie mounts to hold the line. Seems to work well, and no holes in the wall.

I'm going to add a check valve to the return line as well just so when the pump shuts off, there's not a sudden surge of water into the sump. I'm not worried about it being leak free as the sump can handle the backflow, but just want it to be a trickle of backflow if any so nothing gets sucked into the return line when the pump shuts off.

 

[sarcophytonIndy]

I got my sump fired up over the weekend and am happy with the flow I'm getting so far. I have the pump turned down to 36 watts (130W max) and am getting about 200 gph at the display. I am going to crank up the flow after I reconfigure my drain inlets in the display to run herbie style. At the moment, they are both running as overflow drains so not able to handle much flow without making noise. Once I set the one line as a full siphon, I'm sure I'll be able to get alot more flow through.

For mounting the return line, I ended up cutting some longer pipe so the line would run across the wall, and I used some cable tie mounts to hold the line. Seems to work well, and no holes in the wall.

I'm going to add a check valve to the return line as well just so when the pump shuts off, there's not a sudden surge of water into the sump. I'm not worried about it being leak free as the sump can handle the backflow, but just want it to be a trickle of backflow if any so nothing gets sucked into the return line when the pump shuts off.

Good to hear. The nice thing about the DC pumps is that you can adjust the power and flow so precisely. I found with my setup, once I got the power up to about 65% of max, increasing the power didn't increase the flow measurably, so I have left the pump set at 65%. No reason to crank the power up any higher and potentially shorten the life of the pump. Also, if it were me, I wouldn't bother with the check valve unless you really need it. Just one more thing to restrict flow and potentially fail anyway.