Feels like an uphill battle sometimes.

[b4tn]

My reef is going on 4 years old and I feel like even with careful planning and research I am constantly battling SOMETHING. I have gotten rid of red flat worms, Ich, cyano, GHA takeover, Aptaia, currently working on Bubble Algae, and now we are back to cyano again. I have learned so, so much over the years mostly the hard way. I finish up my weekly water change and take a step back to look at my brilliant white sand, coraline encrusted rocks and glass, colorful glowing corals, and think to my self just once it would be nice for my tank to look like this all the time instead of half a day after 3 hours of maintenance. lol I get especially frustrated when I meet a fellow reefer that has a gorgeous tank packed to the rim with coral and buzzing fish and I ask them details and they tell me “I don’t know, I just put a teaspoon of kalk every day and change the water once a month” :mad: Then here is me struggling to keep the nasties at bay. Running RO/DI, weekly water changes, algae removal, dialing in two part, feeding not to much but just enough, keeping the skimmer dialed in, to run GFO or not to run GFO, Getting the timing of the algae scrubber just right, explaining to the wife why I need to buy this new supplement even though I just bought something new last week lol It can be frustrating.

So my latest battle was a bubble algae takeover. I could not remove it fast enough and it was growing on everything even uprooting encrusted corals. I tried several months of frequent water changes, reduced feeding, GFO, algae scrubbing 24 hours a day, nothing worked so i gave up and went the vibrant route. So far vibrant although having the nasty side affect of dark red cyano that grows in the light or dark, grows over zoas, and will literally come back within a half hour of vacuuming the sand has worked very well. My bubble algae finally stopped spreading. I was getting clumps of it breaking off from the places I could not see and free floating for me to catch and throw out. At a quick glance it is gone but a flash light at night and I can still see tiny bubbles hidden in rock crevices. Corals are still doing ok So I am continuing to treat until I see no trace.

So now that I am done whining, I would really like to crack the nut on nutrients and export. I understand the concept of keeping a balance of low phosphate and nitrate but the frustrating part is that I have NEVER been able to get measurable reading of NO3 or PO4. I understand that growing algae consumes it making it unreadable but get frustrated when I see people who have measurable amounts. Per a suggestion to get rid of the cyano I tried adding Nitrate and brought levels up to 5ppm. My SPS browned out a couple days later and the cyano intensified so I stopped. Instead I started feeding heavier. I am currently feeding homemade fish food equivalent to about a cube a day, a second feeding of spectrum pellets, and 10ml broadcast feeding seachem zooplankton every other night with the skimmer off for 4 hours. Still no P04 or No3. Right now bubble algae is still lingering, corals have gotten color back and are growing, and PE is great at night. I am just using a turkey baster every other day to blow the cyano off the rocks and manually removing bubble algae I can see. I turned off my algae scrubber when it stopped producing GHA and just grew slime. I am doing weekly 5 gallon water changes (comes to about 7%) Still no readable nutrient readings.

Salinity 1.026
Calc 420-430
Alk 8.4
Mag 1400
NO3 0
PO4 0

I am looking for advice, keep dosing vibrant and blowing cyano off the rocks every other day? I have been dosing vibrant every 4 days for 4 months now. Stop using vibrant, treat with chemiclean, and hope the bubble algae doesn't come back? Start dosing Nitrate again?

 

[RobZilla04]

By now the system should have such a diverse and populated bacterial population, maintenance should be getting easier, not harder. IMO simplification should help. Obviously there is a clear sign of improvement following these water changes and maintenance regiments. Thus it would seem that a large >50% water change would do the entire system some good.

Before that, how about starting with a ChemiClean treatment for cyano, emerald crabs for bubble algae (possible they may work, maybe not). The good thing about trying the emerald crabs is they are cheap, easy to remove, and can be added immediately.

Following the ChemiClean treatment, a water change is a must. Two options here, one large >50% change, or two/three smaller ones over the course of 7-10 days. Before each change blow off the rocks. Vacuum the sand if you have any, and the sump for any detritus pockets. Monitor feeding throughout (twice daily and no more than the fish can eat in 2 minutes).

Cease any amino, coral food, etc which contribute to nuisance nutrients in the system.

There are lots of options and opinions. From my experience and reading/watching available resources, water changes work best to combatting issues in our tanks.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Rabbitfish have been known to consume bubble. I gave up a long time ago and have bubble in one of my tanks. I tried emeralds but they are slow, or choose to annoy my zoas rather than focus on what I bought them for. I have also pulled larger one but cant get to smaller. I have noticed some that were in my largest tank have vanished since using an algae scrubber But that may be coincidence?

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

There's a thread here on cooked vegetables and hair algae. Check it out

 

[Super Fly]

So sorry for your troubles but I really admire your perseverance/patience and desire to continue when many others would have already thrown in the towel!

I agree w Robzilla04 that by now the tank should have settled nicely and established enough beneficial bacteria to run on cruise control... perhaps u are doing too much maintenance and created an ULNS that's become too clean? May want to try keeping hands out of tank and let it settle/do its own thing. I would advocate leaving the tank alone after having cleaned/treated cyano and let it settle on its own. All those water changes are removing nutrients as well.

Target NO3 at 5-10 AND PO4 at 0.03-0.05 (some keep it higher). When these 2 levels get out of balance (i.e. some NO3 but zero PO4 etc.) from these target #'s then that's when nuisance algae appears.

Adding Yellow Tang or Foxface would help keep bubble algae & GHA under control.

Try to "dirty" up the water & increase NO3 & PO4, I battled cyano for many months until I realized it was a losing battle bc my tank was too clean like yours. After chemiclean treatment and dirtying up the water via increased feeding (2x/day, calen-eeze few times a week & nori few times a week) and reduced skimming I was finally able to defeat cyano. I haven't done water change in few months and still no cyano. In fact I've been having to dose PO4 or else tank will read zero PO4.

GL

 

[Super Fly]

Also, don't run GFO or carbon 24/7, they should only be used only when needed. I haven't used these since getting rid of cyano.

 

[b4tn]

Rabbitfish have been known to consume bubble. I gave up a long time ago and have bubble in one of my tanks. I tried emeralds but they are slow, or choose to annoy my zoas rather than focus on what I bought them for. I have also pulled larger one but cant get to smaller. I have noticed some that were in my largest tank have vanished since using an algae scrubber But that may be coincidence?

I have been keeping my eyes open for some time waiting for my LFS to get in a one spot. I used to have one but lost it. I currently have a single emerald crab I recently added and he certainly seems like a busy guy. When I do see him he is picking at the rocks non stop. I also have a yellow tang that is un interested in the bubbles on the rocks but if its free floating sometimes he will eat it.

There's a thread here on cooked vegetables and hair algae. Check it out

@Jomama cooked vegetables?

 

[b4tn]

By now the system should have such a diverse and populated bacterial population, maintenance should be getting easier, not harder. IMO simplification should help. Obviously there is a clear sign of improvement following these water changes and maintenance regiments. Thus it would seem that a large >50% water change would do the entire system some good.

Before that, how about starting with a ChemiClean treatment for cyano, emerald crabs for bubble algae (possible they may work, maybe not). The good thing about trying the emerald crabs is they are cheap, easy to remove, and can be added immediately.

Following the ChemiClean treatment, a water change is a must. Two options here, one large >50% change, or two/three smaller ones over the course of 7-10 days. Before each change blow off the rocks. Vacuum the sand if you have any, and the sump for any detritus pockets. Monitor feeding throughout (twice daily and no more than the fish can eat in 2 minutes).

Cease any amino, coral food, etc which contribute to nuisance nutrients in the system.

There are lots of options and opinions. From my experience and reading/watching available resources, water changes work best to combatting issues in our tanks.

So sorry for your troubles but I really admire your perseverance/patience and desire to continue when many others would have already thrown in the towel!

I agree w Robzilla04 that by now the tank should have settled nicely and established enough beneficial bacteria to run on cruise control... perhaps u are doing too much maintenance and created an ULNS that's become too clean? May want to try keeping hands out of tank and let it settle/do its own thing. I would advocate leaving the tank alone after having cleaned/treated cyano and let it settle on its own. All those water changes are removing nutrients as well.

Target NO3 at 5-10 AND PO4 at 0.03-0.05 (some keep it higher). When these 2 levels get out of balance (i.e. some NO3 but zero PO4 etc.) from these target #'s then that's when nuisance algae appears.

Adding Yellow Tang or Foxface would help keep bubble algae & GHA under control.

Try to "dirty" up the water & increase NO3 & PO4, I battled cyano for many months until I realized it was a losing battle bc my tank was too clean like yours. After chemiclean treatment and dirtying up the water via increased feeding (2x/day, calen-eeze few times a week & nori few times a week) and reduced skimming I was finally able to defeat cyano. I haven't done water change in few months and still no cyano. In fact I've been having to dose PO4 or else tank will read zero PO4.

GL

I tend to agree with you both. My frustration is I never have any readable NO3 or PO4 unless I dose then my SPS brown out. I am using a Red Sea PO4 test kit but my NO3 test kit while not expired is not the best. While dosing vibrant I can understand why my nitrates would be zero but I feel like I should at least see something on my phosphate tests with how much I am feeding.

I guess the big question I have is I cant really find any recommendations/guidelines for equipment. I have always run carbon in a reactor 24/7, Skimmer always runs 24/7 for both skimming and oxygenation, and scrubber runs 24/7 with 20 hours of light. It seems when ever I deviate from this I end up with an algae outbreak. I do hear small discussions of only running the skimmer at certain times of the day but for how long and what times?

I assume when people mention running the scrubber for only x amount of hours the flow is always on and that the light is only on? I am reluctant to turn the skimmer off just because it affects the level in my ATO chamber so much.

 

[vetteguy53081]

For about a week or two, try running the skimmer and scrubber on a timer for 12 hours and test after a week and see where you are at.
Are you using RO water? Additionally if you are not getting readings, as A Suggestion, take some water to a trusted pet store and have them test it to see what readings they are getting for comparison.

 

[McFly]

I'm with you 100%, I'm a little over 4 years in and always battling something. At times it becomes overwhelming and I must remind myself this is a challenging hobby. I too can't get detectable NO3 or PO4 unless I dose them from my planted tank supply. Pretty sure I have had every algae and most of the pests one can encounter. At this time its GHA, before that was Dinos. Next is probably bubble algae, as it was gone for over a year and I'm starting to see it again. Do not let the pretty pictures on the build threads fool you, its always easy to hide uglies with camera settings or a little retouching before posting. My new motto is that 'natural reefs are fuzzy' so its OK if mine is. All the algae comes and goes, I've tried all the tricks however time, attrition and patience is always key. Planted tank ferts are working for me to keep nutrients detectable, I dose them after every water change.

 

[RobZilla04]

I tend to agree with you both. My frustration is I never have any readable NO3 or PO4 unless I dose then my SPS brown out. I am using a Red Sea PO4 test kit but my NO3 test kit while not expired is not the best. While dosing vibrant I can understand why my nitrates would be zero but I feel like I should at least see something on my phosphate tests with how much I am feeding.

I guess the big question I have is I cant really find any recommendations/guidelines for equipment. I have always run carbon in a reactor 24/7, Skimmer always runs 24/7 for both skimming and oxygenation, and scrubber runs 24/7 with 20 hours of light. It seems when ever I deviate from this I end up with an algae outbreak. I do hear small discussions of only running the skimmer at certain times of the day but for how long and what times?

I assume when people mention running the scrubber for only x amount of hours the flow is always on and that the light is only on? I am reluctant to turn the skimmer off just because it affects the level in my ATO chamber so much.

Do you have any utilitarian fish that will help with the slight algae growth in the DT such as tangs?

20 hours seems excessive for the fuge light. You've got so much for nutrient export (too efficient) which is making the N & P deficient. Feeding heavily might be the easiest way to continue the same direction you're going, but that's no clear road long term as far as results/differences.

 

[vetteguy53081]

This is chemistry 102 while trying to maintain a piece of the ocean in our home.

 

[SDK]

.



@Jomama cooked vegetables?

This is the thread Jomama is referencing...

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/cooked-veggies-maybe-the-answer.546612/

 

[BeejReef]

Just a thought. I'm only just starting, so hesitate to throw in my 2c. However, I notice you said your ATS has stopped producing hair algae. I was binging youtube last night and saw a video where that happened and it was an iron deficiency not allowing the beneficial algae to grow. I can't find that video at the moment, but this article is very similar https://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/8/chemistry

Again, just speculation and something to think about. I certainly wouldn't attempt it unless you get favorable feedback from others who actually have successful tanks up and running.

 

[b4tn]

For about a week or two, try running the skimmer and scrubber on a timer for 12 hours and test after a week and see where you are at.
Are you using RO water? Additionally if you are not getting readings, as A Suggestion, take some water to a trusted pet store and have them test it to see what readings they are getting for comparison.

I am using RO/DI that I just recently replaced cartridges in. I have surprisingly low TDS in my water supply (6TDS in) that my DI lasts forever. It wouldnt hurt to take my water in for a test I may do that this weekend.

I am still treating with Vibrant. I want to finish off the bottle before I go with chemiclean. and messing with skimmer and scrubber times. Right now the scrubber is flowing but has no light. Skimmer runs 24/7

 

[b4tn]

Just a thought. I'm only just starting, so hesitate to throw in my 2c. However, I notice you said your ATS has stopped producing hair algae. I was binging youtube last night and saw a video where that happened and it was an iron deficiency not allowing the beneficial algae to grow. I can't find that video at the moment, but this article is very similar https://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/8/chemistry

Again, just speculation and something to think about. I certainly wouldn't attempt it unless you get favorable feedback from others who actually have successful tanks up and running.

All comments are welcome. Welcome to the rewarding yet sometimes frustrating hobby lol My ATS stopped producing GHA because I am dosing vibrant, a biological method for getting rid of algae.

 

[Super Fly]

I guess the big question I have is I cant really find any recommendations/guidelines for equipment. I have always run carbon in a reactor 24/7, Skimmer always runs 24/7 for both skimming and oxygenation, and scrubber runs 24/7 with 20 hours of light. It seems when ever I deviate from this I end up with an algae outbreak. I do hear small discussions of only running the skimmer at certain times of the day but for how long and what times?

what works for one tank may not work for another tank (even diff tanks in the same house). U have to discover what works for your particular tank thru trial and error.

I think running skimmer, GFO & ATS 24/7 has stripped your tank of all nutrient and thrown the NO3 to PO4 ratio out of balance resulting in nuisance algae. My skimmer runs 12 hrs/day, refugium light on 10 hrs/day and GFO only used when PO4 goes above 0.10 (maybe once a month). Still my NO3 measures 5 and PO4 0.03 even after just one water change since Oct.

Be patient and once tank has settled, it should be running on its own.

 

[WV Reefer]

Maybe try a simpler approach to reefing in general. You don’t “need” all that stuff to have healthy fish and corals. I think that sometimes the “medicine is worse than the disease” when it comes to reef keeping.

I do not have a filter, skimmer or sump. I do not dose or add anything to the tank ever. Basic maintenance and water changes are all I have ever needed.

Keep it Simple.

 

[Super Fly]

BTW, do u have a CUC if so can u list them pls?

 

[b4tn]

I do appreciate all the comments. A lot of insightful information!

BTW, do u have a CUC if so can u list them pls?

Fish include
Yellow Corris Wrasse
Yellow tang
Coral Beauty
2 percula clowns

My cleanup consists of
Hundreds of micro brittle stars
2 mammoth sized brittle stars
Sea Cucumber
Large Emerald Crab
large turbo snail
A few nassarius snails and handful of cerith snails
One peppermint shrimp