Fighting or Pairing?

[DesertReefT4r]

These are my 2 new clowns, been in the tank 2 days. Introduced at the same time, in the same bag and out of the same tank at the LFS. There were about 10 other clowns in there with them too. Fighting our pairing? Circling each other, mouthing fins and face. Started this morning been fine and swimming together until now. It has died down and now they are in opposite sides of the tank.

 

[cracker]

very interesting & good question !

 

[redfishbluefish]

You're always better off purchasing small, juvenile clowns to assure they haven't gone through the change (or at least one that is small.) I've got a hunch you have two females....and that could be a problem.

 

[VTBig053]

This looks more like fighting to me. Typically when they are pairing up and figuring out the pecking order, one clown will show submissive behavior by seizing up and shaking. I did not see any of that behavior in your video. It looked like neither clown wanted to give up any ground.

 

[KrisReef]

Either one female wins and the other fish submits and goes male, or else one female wins and the other dies. They are fighting for dominance, not mating. The fight for dominance has to occur first, with the ideal outcome being that one fish becomes the dominant female and the other the submissive male. Then they can breed, once the boss has been established. Time will tell, keep an eye out if one gets beaten up too badly it will probably die and not submit.

(Same thing as in human relationships, but that doesn't get talked about too much. )
The nearly almost all orange clown is looking weaker in the video. I don't see these pairing up, they both seem pretty determined to rule your tank.

 

[VTBig053]

Either one female wins and the other fish submits and goes male, or else one female wins and the other dies. They are fighting for dominance, not mating. The fight for dominance has to occur first, with the ideal outcome being that one fish becomes the dominant female and the other the submissive male. Then they can breed, once the boss has been established. Time will tell, keep an eye out if one gets beaten up too badly it will probably die and not submit.

(Same thing as in human relationships, but that doesn't get talked about too much. )
The nearly almost all orange clown is looking weaker in the video. I don't see these pairing up, they both seem pretty determined to rule your tank.

I was always under the impression that once the fish became a female there is no changing back to male. So if you have teo females the will continue to fight until one dies.

 

[Amoo]

This is normal when you have 2 clowns whom are both male and one doesn't have a distinct size advantage. I would assume the misbar ends up being your male, but right now it looks like he isn't ready to give in just yet. I don't think either of those clowns is large enough to become full blown females yet. Neither of them have enough black for me to believe their out of juvenile stages.

 

[Amoo]

I was always under the impression that once the fish became a female there is no changing back to male. So if you have teo females the will continue to fight until one dies.

This is correct for clowns, they go from Male to female, not the other way around.

 

[Mr.Hyde]

I have had many different species of clown for over four years and that my friend, is not pairing. That is a territory disput and will ultimately lead to one of their deaths if the tank is not large enough. When clown fish begin to pair, they will show one dominant fish and one sub dominant fish. The sub dominant will follow the dominant fish and move around almost in a figure eight vibrating manor. They never will go head on unless they are both turning. The sub dominant fish will than back off until the next round. This will happen over the course of weeks/months and then they will pair up (basically inseparable) and find something to host. This is from my experience in raising clark, ocellaris and
Amphiprion akallopisos.

 

[DesertReefT4r]

Thanks. I will call the LFS and see if I can trade one for a smaller one. I liked the markimgs on these, sucks. The almost nakes clown is smaller than the other but not by a lot.

 

[davocean]

This is normal when you have 2 clowns whom are both male and one doesn't have a distinct size advantage. I would assume the misbar ends up being your male, but right now it looks like he isn't ready to give in just yet. I don't think either of those clowns is large enough to become full blown females yet. Neither of them have enough black for me to believe their out of juvenile stages.

Agree, personally I'd let it ride if you are drawn to this pair

 

[DesertReefT4r]

This is normal when you have 2 clowns whom are both male and one doesn't have a distinct size advantage. I would assume the misbar ends up being your male, but right now it looks like he isn't ready to give in just yet. I don't think either of those clowns is large enough to become full blown females yet. Neither of them have enough black for me to believe their out of juvenile stages.

Thanks. Yeah I was also judging them to be juvenile still as well, LFS normally get them in as juveniles and thyet had just gotten them a week ago. I would agree that the misbar almost naked clown will end up being the male if they work things out since than one is a bit smaller, these are about 1.25" in size btw. They are back to hanging out together and getting along . They spent several hours today at opposite corners at the top back of the tank near the powerheads, went down stars and peaked at them and they where together again. Very cool to watch them as they sort things out, hoping the misbar will submit. Both of these are captive breed normal ocellaris clownfish and the only 2 that had abnormal markings.

 

[MTBake]

Looks like they're figuring out who is who. That isn't full blown aggression from what I've seen clowns capable of. The closer in size they are, the more difficult time they'll have figuring out who is who. It could take some time.

You'll be able to tell when one is trying to kill the other and I don't see that in this video, ime.

 

[DesertReefT4r]

All is still good. Being friendly and hanging out together. Feed the tank and both are eating well. Neither one has damaged fins. Thanks for the help. They must just be working out the pecking order.

 

[Amoo]

Thanks. Yeah I was also judging them to be juvenile still as well, LFS normally get them in as juveniles and thyet had just gotten them a week ago. I would agree that the misbar almost naked clown will end up being the male if they work things out since than one is a bit smaller, these are about 1.25" in size btw. They are back to hanging out together and getting along . They spent several hours today at opposite corners at the top back of the tank near the powerheads, went down stars and peaked at them and they where together again. Very cool to watch them as they sort things out, hoping the misbar will submit. Both of these are captive breed normal ocellaris clownfish and the only 2 that had abnormal markings.

It's actually not extremely common for folks to have two that are getting close to transferring at the same time. Often times even when folks get two that were the same size after about a month or two one will naturally start getting larger due to food competition, genetics...etc. You just happen to have two stubborn males there. I'm not saying it's not possible 1 doesn't get injured, but it's going to depend on how stubborn that misbar is. He SHOULD submit eventually, but as always, every fish is an individual. Of my two Maroons, my male is the jerk and my female is calm and placid. Unfortunately for my male he was much smaller then my female when I got them together.

 

[Lasse]

The video shows typical fish fighting for dominance/territory. If it will end with a pair or death of one of them depends on many things - among if they already has chose to be females or not. (IMO clowns can´t change from female to male when they already has become females)

That they now swim together indicate that the picking order is there - at least for the moment

Sincerely Lasse

 

[SuncrestReef]

My clowns did the same thing for about 2 weeks. They both ended up with white scar tissue around their mouths and a couple of tattered fins, but after 2 weeks there was an obvious dominance arrangement and they have been getting along great ever since. Two months later, the dominant fish is now noticeably larger even though they both started off the same size.

When the fighting first started I panicked because they had been getting along fine for several weeks and I was worried they would kill each other. But researching their behavior led me to believe it was just a dominance challenge and I let them work it out. I'm glad I didn't take them back to the store. They are happy together now.

 

[DesertReefT4r]

I have been and will be keeping a close eye on them.

 

[Katrina71]

We are having the same issue. Larger clown bit the crap out of the smaller one's tail and lip. I don't see any injury, but I'm concerned. I did move some rock today, I'm wondering if that contributed.

 

[vetteguy53081]

We are having the same issue. Larger clown bit the crap out of the smaller one's tail and lip. I don't see any injury, but I'm concerned. I did move some rock today, I'm wondering if that contributed.

Moving the scaping around always diverts attention to a new territory. You may have two girls.