Final advice for treatment . . . or not . . . :)

[Mini Coop]

#reefsquad
@Humblefish @4FordFamily @Big G @HotRocks and any others who want to chime in!

Long and short of it: Naso and Powder Blue in QT for 3.5 weeks.
No treatment yet as the Naso went on a 1.5 week hunger strike. So far no signs of ich or velvet (which is amazing since I got them each from 2 different LFS's!!). No flashing, scratching, yawning . . . none of it. And both are eating VERY well!
Was thinking to treat with copper for 14 days as a precaution thinking I could transfer to DT because they have had 3.5 weeks of pre-observation. But also thought I could do a full 30 days of copper with 2 weeks observation after (just not looking forward to the copper removal process . . .)

Anyway - yesterday the Naso showed these dark-ish spots on one side of his body by his upper and lower fins. Almost looks like skin coming off. I am thinking he injured himself while relentlessly hiding (he is so shy). I tried to get as good of video as I could.

So, the question is - do I treat at all and if so, what?
Just observe for the skin problems and make sure he doesn't get a bacterial infection?
Should I treat with copper at all if they are showing no signs of needing it? (Super scary to not treat tangs). If so, when and how long? I don't want to stress them in the 40 longer than I have to, but ultimately don't want to risk disease in my main tank either.
Any idea what might be going on with his skin? (He hides by the heater sometimes . . .)

I have talked to @Humblefish about this a little, but now that it has been almost a month with no signs, I am not sure how to proceed. And thought for the good of anyone watching your advice would be awesome!

Also have a new Japanese pintail in QT and a Niger Trigger. Both are also looking really clear and healthy so far!
Here is the video of the Naso.

 

[4FordFamily]

It’s so ugly out there right now, symptoms or not I’m not subjecting my DT to all of the nasties.

Regarding the spots a good photo might be helpful, but black spots could be black ich. Uronema, black ich, flukes, nasty bacterial infections, ich, and velvet are absolutely everywhere. Most fish we’ve been bringing in to QT have had several of these ailments and dying from mysterious ones a couple weeks after arrival. It’s perplexing and frankly sad.

Don’t risk it.

 

[Antics]

Cosigning @4FordFamily. If you introduce these fish to your DT the minute they have any type of suspect behavior its going to be throwing off alarms in your head that you'll never be able to dismiss. QT is a zero sum game when it comes to Ich and Velvet. I know some people can tolerate the observation only / no medication and then introduction but I'd be wary of asymptomatic fish that could devastate the other DT population.

 

[Mini Coop]

Thank you both! I guess I have always had every single fish that comes in be obviously riddled with ich or velvet or both or bacterial infections or all of it. These are the first 3 (including the trigger) that have ever come looking apparently completely healthy. And I felt bad treating a supposedly healthy fish. @Antics - what you said is correct. I would be a mess worrying about every little thing in DT if I don’t treat.

I’m going to work on possibly moving my 120 at my in laws to my house so that I have a fresh tank to transfer them to for observation. Or see if a friend has a 55 I can borrow. With the 120 I could make a separator for them and the sailfin/foxface that are in it as an acclimation as well. I don’t know - just ideas to not have to do so many water changes to completley remove copper before observation. It’s a huge pain!!! But I can and will do it if it’s less stress for the fish ultimately.

Thanks for the advice! I started copper tonight. Decision made! I’ll raise it slowly over the next 3-4 days so they don’t get a shock.

 

[HotRocks]

Agree with the consensus ^^^^

Especially with the nature of Acanthurus, not worth risking. I have been encountering some seriously nasty gram negative bacteria as well.

You're doing the right thing IMO.

 

[drstardust]

Good decision and agree with above. In any case, he sure appears to be eating voraciously, which is a good sign

 

[cancun]

Hi! I don't mean to hijack this thread....but I have been hearing and seeing a lot of unhealthy fish at local LFS in my area.....does anyone have any ideas on what is going on?

 

[Mini Coop]

Hi! I don't mean to hijack this thread....but I have been hearing and seeing a lot of unhealthy fish at local LFS in my area.....does anyone have any ideas on what is going on?

This question is very welcome! I haven't been into the politics of reefing, but as I hear more and more, I am aware of the importance and in order to sustain the hobby things need to change. I am heartbroken about all of the fish dying. I see SO MANY people just up and deciding to "put up a saltwater tank" with no research, no background, and horrible advice and it is awful. I even thought I had "expert" advice, which turned out to be VERY bad from a friend who worked in a big box saltwater store. Not so much. I turned here to get help when he dissapeared when things went wrong.

QUESTION: Ramping up copper for a few days here - Since they have shown no signs . . . recommend 14 day treatment and into a new tank after that (if I can get one) or 30 days and then water changes to get to 0? I feel either would be fine.
Also - I have some live rock in the tank with them to help with bacteria and hiding spots (the naso is ***** shy and stressed easily). I have plenty of rock in my main tank sump so I am ok with even throwing pieces out or collecting some rock used in QT and curing it later. Is it ok to leave it in there knowing I need to watch my copper levels daily (I have the hanna checker) to make sure levels are staying up? Or do I need to remove it?

THANKS EVERYONE! I love this group!

 

[HotRocks]

This question is very welcome! I haven't been into the politics of reefing, but as I hear more and more, I am aware of the importance and in order to sustain the hobby things need to change. I am heartbroken about all of the fish dying. I see SO MANY people just up and deciding to "put up a saltwater tank" with no research, no background, and horrible advice and it is awful. I even thought I had "expert" advice, which turned out to be VERY bad from a friend who worked in a big box saltwater store. Not so much. I turned here to get help when he dissapeared when things went wrong.

QUESTION: Ramping up copper for a few days here - Since they have shown no signs . . . recommend 14 day treatment and into a new tank after that (if I can get one) or 30 days and then water changes to get to 0? I feel either would be fine.
Also - I have some live rock in the tank with them to help with bacteria and hiding spots (the naso is ***** shy and stressed easily). I have plenty of rock in my main tank sump so I am ok with even throwing pieces out or collecting some rock used in QT and curing it later. Is it ok to leave it in there knowing I need to watch my copper levels daily (I have the hanna checker) to make sure levels are staying up? Or do I need to remove it?

THANKS EVERYONE! I love this group!

@Mini Coop
Since you have the Hanna checker the LR is fine to leave in QT. As you said just don't put it back in your DT ever, keep it in QT. Just monitor it daily. I would imagine you will see some slight absorption as you ramp up copper. Once you reach the target PPM it should stabilize and hold. I don't use LR in QTs but the filter floss I use to house biofilter does slightly absorb copper during ramp up.

I just started up a new QT for chaoti leopards that arrive today, and I'm using fluval Biomax that has been in my DT sump for 90 days, will be interesting to see if I encounter absorbtion once I begin copper.

 

[Mini Coop]

@Mini Coop
Since you have the Hanna checker the LR is fine to leave in QT. As you said just don't put it back in your DT ever, keep it in QT. Just monitor it daily. I would imagine you will see some slight absorption as you ramp up copper. Once you reach the target PPM it should stabilize and hold. I don't use LR in QTs but the filter floss I use to house biofilter does slightly absorb copper during ramp up.

I just started up a new QT for chaoti leopards that arrive today, and I'm using fluval Biomax that has been in my DT sump for 90 days, will be interesting to see if I encounter absorbtion once I begin copper.

Oh - cool - let me know!! I have a pintail fairy wrasse in QT now too. (yes - I have 5 tanks including my main tank that all eat different things right now - I have been on summer break . . . I think I forgot I would be going back to school tomorrow . . . soooo - now to see how early I have to get up to get a workout, get the kids ready and all of the fish fed before I leave ) ANNNDDD ... I have to be at work by 7 a.m.!

I just did a blue star leopard in copper and she did awesome, so I am hoping the pintail does ok too. I am using coppersafe (already tested this bottle and it seems to be true to dosage, not over like some of the others were researching).

 

[Mini Coop]

Alright @HotRocks and @4FordFamily - I made a boo boo. Well. Sort of.

Treating the tangs and trigger with copper. Figured I might as well go ahead and do the pintail fairy wrasse too. All 3 QT tanks at the same time. Awesome.

Well. Then I noticed what might be a little white string coming from the bottom of the fairy tail....Oye! He’s eating really well. And he is pretty big. Copper is at .53.
Go ahead and ramp up and finish with the entire copper treatment first then prazi. Or remove and do prazi??

 

[Maritimer]

If the fairy's got white poop going on, I'd lean toward General Cure with Focus in food. I think you ought to be safe enough doing that along with copper . . .

~Bruce

 

[HotRocks]

I am with @Maritimer white stringy poop is intestinal parasites and or worms. Feed food soaked with GC/focus. Completely safe to do during copper. I actually start food soaked GC the same day I start copper treatment every time.

1 scoop (scoop that comes with focus) of GC per tablespoon of thawed frozen.

 

[Mini Coop]

If the fairy's got white poop going on, I'd lean toward General Cure with Focus in food. I think you ought to be safe enough doing that along with copper . . .

~Bruce

General cure can be with copper!! Yeah! (Does this take place of prazi?) Lol. The ONE medication I don’t have in my bag of tricks. Lol. I can order it pretty quick though. I use selcon in food. Focus would be better? Is there another name for it? I’m not seeing it on amazon.

 

[Mini Coop]

I am with @Maritimer white stringy poop is intestinal parasites and or worms. Feed food soaked with GC/focus. Completely safe to do during copper. I actually start food soaked GC the same day I start copper treatment every time.

1 scoop (scoop that comes with focus) of GC per tablespoon of thawed frozen.

Never mind. Found it. Ordered from amazon. Will go ahead and use on tangs and trigger as well. They would be ok with it?

 

[HotRocks]

If you have Metroplex go ahead and mix that into food. Same thing. 1 scoop of metro per 1 tablespoon of thawed frozen.

Selcon is a vitamin additive, continue that as well.

Order the GC and then just switch to that once it arrives. Metroplex covers the intestinal parasites but not worms.

GC contains metronidazole which is in Metroplex and praziquantel which Is in prazipro. This is why it covers both. But we are talking about treating internally through food.

You can also dose GC in the water per the instructions to treat for flukes, brook etc. It does contain a slightly lower concentration of praziquantel than prazipro just FYI.

Focus is made by seachem.
Here is Amazon link:

Focus In 5 Gm/0.2 Oz https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00FOW79US/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_HCpyBbF8F28D4

 

[HotRocks]

Never mind. Found it. Ordered from amazon. Will go ahead and use on tangs and trigger as well. They would be ok with it?

Focus will bind the meds to the food. I just use one scoop of it as well in QT. It says to use 5x the med. Not necessary in QT, I would only use 5x if food was going in a reef tank.

You will want to feed all fish this med soaked food. Especially the tank with Wrasse that had white stringy poop. This is very common in Wrasse just fyi.

 

[Mini Coop]

If you have Metroplex go ahead and mix that into food. Same thing. 1 scoop of metro per 1 tablespoon of thawed frozen.

Selcon is a vitamin additive, continue that as well.

Order the GC and then just switch to that once it arrives. Metroplex covers the intestinal parasites but not worms.

GC contains metronidazole which is in Metroplex and praziquantel which Is in prazipro. This is why it covers both. But we are talking about treating internally through food.

You can also dose GC in the water per the instructions to treat for flukes, brook etc. It does contain a slightly lower concentration of praziquantel than prazipro just FYI.

Focus is made by seachem.
Here is Amazon link:

Focus In 5 Gm/0.2 Oz https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00FOW79US/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_HCpyBbF8F28D4

Awesome!! Both ordered. Yes. I keep metro, kana, reef rally, prazi and just about everything else. This will just complete my collection. Lol.

 

[Mini Coop]

Focus will bind the meds to the food. I just use one scoop of it as well in QT. It says to use 5x the med. Not necessary in QT, I would only use 5x if food was going in a reef tank.

You will want to feed all fish this med soaked food. Especially the tank with Wrasse that had white stringy poop. This is very common in Wrasse just fyi.

Making sure I understand:
So one scoop of GC, plus one scoop of focus per 1 TBSP of thawed frozen food. (Obviously I don’t feed an entire tbsp to the wrasse) so he will get some of the meds. I probably use a tbsp between the 3 tanks. So I’ll spread the love. Correct me if I’m wrong.

 

[HotRocks]

Making sure I understand:
So one scoop of GC, plus one scoop of focus per 1 TBSP of thawed frozen food. (Obviously I don’t feed an entire tbsp to the wrasse) so he will get some of the meds. I probably use a tbsp between the 3 tanks. So I’ll spread the love. Correct me if I’m wrong.

I regularly feed all my tanks frozen blend daily. I take LRS, mysis, spirulina, baby brine, krill, bloodworms, etc. Throw all in a cup. Nuke for 30 seconds let thaw rest of way. Strain off heavy liquid. Add selcon. Add bit if garlic. Then I take out two tablespoons and put in to seperate dish (I keep separate food containers for DT/QT to prevent cross contamination). Then add two scoops metro and two scoops focus. I then use this for up to 5 days feeding. Whatever is left at end of 5 days I toss. Keep refrigerated. Make new and repeat.