finally went herbie!

Dtackett · Sep 19, 2015

so after months of listing to a toilet flush non stop I finally bit the bullet and paid 17 bucks for a gate valve. now im kicking myself for not ordering it sooner. took 2 minutes to install, 2 hours to dry, 10 seconds to flush, and about 5 minutes to adjust. silent... now I just need to build my overflow boxes. if I have a pump failure right now, ill have a flood. but sweet sweet silence.

if any of you have been putting off on buying gate valves, stop. just buy it, hook it up and enjoy a silent plumbing setup... now just to replace my pumps with jabeo. then my tank will make no noise at all. only thing I can hear now is my return pump. even my skimmer is near silent.

Cleo642 · Sep 19, 2015

I am sure ball valves and butterfly valves can do similar.

Dtackett · Sep 19, 2015

actually they do the exact same thing. the issue becomes precision. ball valves and butterfly valves both make too big of an adjustment with the slightest movement and tend to be tough to move. whereas a gate valve you can get precision down to the MM because half a turn isn't the difference between open and closed. will it do the same? yes, will it work? yes. but while pushing a car will get it to move, using the proper component (the engine) makes things much easier.

Cleo642 · Sep 19, 2015

Dtackett said:
actually they do the exact same thing. the issue becomes precision. ball valves and butterfly valves both make too big of an adjustment with the slightest movement and tend to be tough to move. whereas a gate valve you can get precision down to the MM because half a turn isn't the difference between open and closed. will it do the same? yes, will it work? yes. but while pushing a car will get it to move, using the proper component (the engine) makes things much easier.

Ball valves and butterfly valves are 1/4 turn valves. Gate are mainly should be used for fully open and closed service. Globe valves are the best for throttling. Throttling with a gate valve can damage the valve seat, so when you want close all the way it'll leak if damaged. At least that's something I have learned as part of my process technology education. Idk if they make globe valves for pvc pipe, I am sure they do. I am sure pvc valves aren't that expensive either. In the industry I have seen 36" gate valves. I am sure people do use them for throttling, but it makes them wear out faster.

Cleo642 · Sep 19, 2015

WilRams · Sep 19, 2015

Gate valves are the ticket. I love the precision.

Dtackett · Sep 19, 2015

in the aquarium industry, gate valves are king. ive seen a lot of setups over the years and its always ball valves or gate valves and rarely ball valves as they can becomes very tough to turn. gate valves are best. you see for a herbie youre more trying to maintain a full syphon on one bulkhead and a slow trickle on the other. basically, you want 1 to act as though its running at 100% while the other runs less than 10%. so yes, you are throttling but no, the gate valves aren't used to close or open anything. that's what ball valves are good for. being fully closed, or fully open. not much else. at least in my vast experience of trying to be cheap and failing miserably lol

Cleo642 · Sep 19, 2015

Dtackett said:
in the aquarium industry, gate valves are king. ive seen a lot of setups over the years and its always ball valves or gate valves and rarely ball valves as they can becomes very tough to turn. gate valves are best. you see for a herbie youre more trying to maintain a full syphon on one bulkhead and a slow trickle on the other. basically, you want 1 to act as though its running at 100% while the other runs less than 10%. so yes, you are throttling but no, the gate valves aren't used to close or open anything. that's what ball valves are good for. being fully closed, or fully open. not much else. at least in my vast experience of trying to be cheap and failing miserably lol

Yep, I am sure for small time aquarium hobbies any valve will do. I am also sure many might not understand the differences, not that it really matters anyway. If I wanna use a globe valve instead of a gate valve I will. If I wanna use a butterfly valve I will cause they are awesome for low velocity situations like water. To each their own band valve. I am just playing around.

Cleo642 · Sep 19, 2015

I was trying to say gate valves aren't designed for throttling and globe valves are. I hope you are well tonight. What is a herbie anyway?

Dtackett · Sep 19, 2015

yup to each their own, but I wouldn't call a 900 gallon aquarium a small time hobby aquarium and hes running a beananaimal with gate valves. I don't really understand the difference between a gate and a globe tbh. looks about the same to me. ill have to do some research and see what I can learn. I didn't take offence to anything. its nothing more than a discussion that im sure ill learn something new from. and I am well. I found the stash of starbucks coffee in the office breakroom lol

Cleo642 · Sep 19, 2015

Dtackett said:
yup to each their own, but I wouldn't call a 900 gallon aquarium a small time hobby aquarium and hes running a beananaimal with gate valves. I don't really understand the difference between a gate and a globe tbh. looks about the same to me. ill have to do some research and see what I can learn. I didn't take offence to anything. its nothing more than a discussion that im sure ill learn something new from. and I am well. I found the stash of starbucks coffee in the office breakroom lol

Not really a coffee drinker myself, try to stay away from caffeine.

Dtackett · Sep 19, 2015

i live on it lol especially here at night.

eg8r210 · Sep 19, 2015

Cleo642 said:
I was trying to say gate valves aren't designed for throttling and globe valves are. I hope you are well tonight. What is a herbie anyway?

I applaud you buddy. Don't let the vast experience of this forum to get in the way of you being "right". Go get your globe valve and let us know how well it does at doing exactly the same thing as a gate valve.

Cleo642 · Sep 20, 2015

Wow, I guess that any valve is used for starting and stopping generally is the same use. And the fact that they make different valves cause there are differences shouldn't mean anything to you. No reason for rudeness whoever you are.

scardall · Sep 20, 2015

most agreed. try something like this to prevent siphon back. see pic.

Dtackett · Sep 20, 2015

i use locline so I was able to situate my return high enough that it wouldn't pull much, but in order to pull a syphon for my herbie I had to turn the elbow on the bulkhead feeding my with the gate valve on it 90 degrees. now ive got my sump at the right level to prevent a flood, but not by much. im just going to have to build a pvc overflow box for it. just gotta get a piece of 3 inch pvc and a test cap I can glue in. need to find all this in black so I don't have to paint it lol issue becomes its almost cheaper just to buy an overflow box.

JSeward · Sep 20, 2015

Cleo642 said:
Ball valves and butterfly valves are 1/4 turn valves. Gate are mainly should be used for fully open and closed service. Globe valves are the best for throttling. Throttling with a gate valve can damage the valve seat, so when you want close all the way it'll leak if damaged. At least that's something I have learned as part of my process technology education. Idk if they make globe valves for pvc pipe, I am sure they do. I am sure pvc valves aren't that expensive either. In the industry I have seen 36" gate valves. I am sure people do use them for throttling, but it makes them wear out faster.

Ball valves are designed to be used fully open or fully closed. Using them partially opened damages the seat and they will leak. Exactly like you explained for a gate valve. Since the fluid we run through them is relatively safe for valve seals, any valve will work. So, the important factors for deciding which valve to use in a home aquarium (not a commercial or industrial application) are adjustability and price. Since you aren't sure if the valves you mentioned exist in PVC, I'll share some links with you so you can include the proper valves in your next build.

2" PVC Ball Valve - $6.00
2" PVC Gate Valve - $42.22
2" PVC Butterfly Valve - $199.77 (Does not include mounting flanges or hardware)
2" PVC 90* Globe Valve - $274.65
2" PVC Globe Valve - $405.27 (Does not include mounting flanges or hardware)

Dtackett · Sep 20, 2015

yeah, or ebay gate valve 1 inch (what I needed) for 17 lol think ill stick with what makes sense.

Harold Green · Sep 20, 2015

Not to try and change the direction of this interchange but wouldn't it have been easier to size the return pump properly to start with? Figure out how much flow your overflows can handle and then choose a pump with that flow at the tanks head height. You can even upsize the pump slightly and then add a tee and valve to the return to divert some flow back into the sump to match the return exactly to the overflows.

Dtackett · Sep 20, 2015

even then its still loud. pulling a full syphon on 1, and a trickle on the other prevents the turbulence that causes the sound. even with a properly matched pump youll still get water sound as it drains unless its a perfect match at which point its going to flood eventually as buildup occurs in your pipes. tbh, this is the setup I was wanting to do from the start I just got impatient and didn't want to spend the money. theres a reason theres so many different plumbing setups: durso, herbie, beananimal etc. its all in hopes of running silent while still maintaining good flow. with the setup as it sits I barely get any bubbles in my sump from it. once I do the overflow boxes and finish tweeking it as needed itll run silent and still be able to handle a lot more flow in case of a clog in one of the pipes.

oh and my bulkheads would require 1k gph to both run 100% on full syphon to be silent and its only a 29 gallon tank lol I think my 500 gph pump is a bit much as is