Firefish looks like it is dying

[bobmakespancakes]

I am going to now test ammonia and that stuff but he before was laying on his side with his top fin down but my clownfish look healthy why is he like this and how can i help him

 

[brandon429]

Fallow, quarantine tank prep missing (fish disease) That’s a zero ammonia system you can tell by looking at the pic.

additionally, the hobby is trained to link bad params with all fish deaths, but the truth is they can have congenital inherited diseases that can’t be permitted, heart attacks too. The larger share of loss is prevented with correct tank prep for fallow and qt, but another small fraction are unavoidable loss from natural causes.

 

[bobmakespancakes]

Fallow, quarantine tank prep missing. That’s a zero ammonia system you can tell by looking at the pic.

i don't have a quarantine tank this is my first time owning saltwaterfish

 

[brandon429]

It’s so weird how fish disease works in sw vs freshwater. I would give any reefer running any mix other than a couple clownfish (very hardy) a five percent chance of not having loss in the first six months if fallow and qt are skipped. See our fish disease forum here, the stickies at the top describe the procedure so you can at least rule out common fish diseases in the hobby


freshwater fish don’t require all these steps

Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis

A forum for discussing treatment and diagnosing saltwater reef fish.

www.reef2reef.com

quick summary
-have to remove all fish for about eighty days to starve off disease in the system

reintroduce treated fish, qt fish, or you can buy already qt fish. There isn’t a workaround, 95% will keep dying if you skip the preps. Owning two tanks and running the preps is required for successful marine fish keeping if percent risk matters in the game

 

[bobmakespancakes]

It’s so weird how fish disease works in sw vs freshwater. I would give any reefer running any mix other than a couple clownfish (very hardy) a five percent chance of not having loss in the first six months if fallow and qt are skipped. See our fish disease forum here, the stickies at the top describe the procedure so you can at least rule out common fish diseases in the hobby


freshwater fish don’t require all these steps

Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis

A forum for discussing treatment and diagnosing saltwater reef fish.

www.reef2reef.com

quick summary
-have to remove all fish for about eighty days to starve off disease in the system

reintroduce treated fish, qt fish, or you can buy already qt fish. There isn’t a workaround, 95% will keep dying if you skip the preps. Owning two tanks and running the preps is required for successful marine fish keeping if percent risk matters in the game

I don't have a quarantine tank and i can't get one what should i do?

 

[brandon429]

Reconsider fish, no joke

read the fish forum and see how things are panning out skipping the option as well as alternates. I’m not aware of successful alternates though. To follow the method seems required I’m not finding alternate recommends there

 

[bobmakespancakes]

all of the fish or the firefish?

 

[brandon429]

I have a bunch of friends using clowns successfully without all that fanfare but other than clowns im not aware of other tougher fish unless others have an idea

I agree fallow prep is not fun at all

 

[IKD]

Do you have a top-down pic? Wondering how sunken his stomach is and if he’s getting the right food. Did he eat a lot?

 

[bobmakespancakes]

Do you have a top-down pic? Wondering how sunken his stomach is and if he’s getting the right food. Did he eat a lot?

he eats some brine shrimp i can try to get a picture like that

 

[bobmakespancakes]

sorry he went into his rock i can't

 

[Fishbird]

Going forward you can use a 10 gallon tank for quarantine. I’m not sure where you are but Petco and petsmart are both open and they sell 10 gallon tanks. You can have them delivered too. Those don’t take up much space and it only has to be up and running when you have an animal in it. You could probably even run it sitting on the floor as long as you can make sure pets/kids can’t get to it. Good luck!

 

[bobmakespancakes]

Going forward you can use a 10 gallon tank for quarantine. I’m not sure where you are but Petco and petsmart are both open and they sell 10 gallon tanks. You can have them delivered too. Those don’t take up much space and it only has to be up and running when you have an animal in it. You could probably even run it sitting on the floor as long as you can make sure pets/kids can’t get to it. Good luck!

ok but what should i do about it currently? i can't get another tank

 

[PHXReefguy]

Hey bob,
I see your other thread here about losing snails. https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/snails-dying.702180/#post-7236253

Can you tell us more about your tank?
Size and equipment etc.
How aout your test parameters?
(Salinity, Ammonia, nitrate , po4)
How long has the tank been set up?
What do you have in it?

 

[brandon429]

And I recall a thread on algae, separately for this tank.


here are the pictures we need via cellphone:

a full tank shot showing the whole nano

the shots of the fish / wanted to check its profiling above from earlier post. time to see the whole tank to get a handle on losses and separate challenges. All the issues for the whole tank can be solved at once, here.

 

[laverda]

Fallow, quarantine tank prep missing (fish disease) That’s a zero ammonia system you can tell by looking at the pic.

additionally, the hobby is trained to link bad params with all fish deaths, but the truth is they can have congenital inherited diseases that can’t be permitted, heart attacks too. The larger share of loss is prevented with correct tank prep for fallow and qt, but another small fraction are unavoidable loss from natural causes.

Have to ask, how can you tell there is zero ammonia in his tank?

 

[brandon429]

See if you buy this rationale:

1. total water clarity, a dead snail may not cloud a tank agreed, but ammonia able to hold consistently day after day will 100% cloud a tank and kill all inhabitants within 48 hours because only a huge dead mass could cause that. Clear water here above, up close, is first signal. Ammonia cannot hover in any reef using live sand or live rock, it’s too much active surface area. Ammonia will either overtake bac ability and kill the tank, or it will be .00x thousandths ppm on a seneye (an accurate ammonia tester, the rest are not) which is a safe zone. My call above is that ammonia is already verified safe here, no need to measure out a common .25/ API and cause total doubt here.

2. we can tell from the light shading of diatoms on the sandbed he‘s cycled, and by his stated algae problem from another thread. benthic attachments 100% signify a closed cycle, his filter bac is not in question. That will uptake all free ammonia to .00x ppm on any accurate seneye test, what Red Sea or api would measure wouldn’t factor at all, even if he posted .5 in light of that picture above.

3. the sand looks like wet pack caribsea, that alone carries a full bioload upon entry.

4. the living snail behind the fish has been in there longer than 48 hours along with other fish we cant see...plus all their feeding. Sensitivity indicators, he‘d be dead if this tank couldn’t control ammonia. Since ammonia cannot ever stall or hover, it’s all or nothing based on surface area, ammonia is known safe here


5. ammonia burnt fish position differently, burnt gills cause them to hover, not descend due to inability to gain oxygen, they must migrate to the zone of highest oxygen and their gills will pant heavily and show redness. Fish excrete ammonia by the gills and those are double backed up organs, red and flared, when systemic ammonia is truly uncontrolled.

 

[laverda]

It’s so weird how fish disease works in sw vs freshwater. I would give any reefer running any mix other than a couple clownfish (very hardy) a five percent chance of not having loss in the first six months if fallow and qt are skipped. See our fish disease forum here, the stickies at the top describe the procedure so you can at least rule out common fish diseases in the hobby


freshwater fish don’t require all these steps

Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis

A forum for discussing treatment and diagnosing saltwater reef fish.

www.reef2reef.com

quick summary
-have to remove all fish for about eighty days to starve off disease in the system

reintroduce treated fish, qt fish, or you can buy already qt fish. There isn’t a workaround, 95% will keep dying if you skip the preps. Owning two tanks and running the preps is required for successful marine fish keeping if percent risk matters in the game

While I QT any new fish I totally disagree with your statement and numbers. I know plenty of people that do not QT and get away with it. Way more than 5%. Probably more like 50%. For myself I don’t treat the fish in QT unless. I see a reason to. My new fish spend 90 days in QT recovering and being observed. I think the source of the fish makes a big a difference as anything. That includes the wholesaler your LFS uses.

 

[brandon429]

Easy stance to claim while they need help in the forum above stopping fish loss, hundreds of posts per week

case in point

3 dead fish in 24 hours

Hi all, Yesterday morning I lost my lemon peel angel and was going to check all my levels this morning. This morning I noticed my flame angel also died. I tested everything I can. Ph 7.8 Sal 1.024 Amm 0 Nitrite 0 Nitrate 20 Alk 11.2 Mag 1320 Call 430 Temp 77.4 All my remaining fish 2 black...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[laverda]

See if you buy this rationale:

1. total water clarity, a dead snail may not cloud a tank agreed, but ammonia able to hold consistently day after day will 100% cloud a tank and kill all inhabitants within 48 hours because only a huge dead mass could cause that. Clear water here is first signal. Ammonia cannot hover in any reef using live sand or live rock, it’s too much active surface area. Ammonia will either overtake bac ability and kill the tank, or it will be .00x thousandths ppm on a seneye (an accurate ammonia tester, the rest are not) which is a safe zone. My call above is that ammonia is already verified safe here, no need to measure out a common .25/ API and cause total doubt here.

2. we can tell from the light shading of diatoms on the sandbed he‘s cycled, and by his stated algae problem from another thread. benthic attachments 100% signify a closed cycle, his filter bac is not in question. That will uptake all free ammonia to .00x ppm on any accurate seneye test, what Red Sea or api would measure wouldn’t factor at all, even if he posted .5 in light of that picture above.

3. the sand looks like wet pack caribsea, that alone carries a full bioload upon entry.

4. the living snail behind the fish has been in there longer than 48 hours along with other fish we cant see...plus all their feeding. Sensitivity indicators, he‘d be dead if this tank couldn’t control ammonia. Since ammonia cannot ever stall or hover, it’s all or nothing based on surface area, ammonia is known safe here


5. ammonia burnt fish position differently, burnt gills cause them to hover, not descend due to inability to gain oxygen, they must migrate to the zone of highest oxygen and their gills will pant heavily and show redness. Fish excrete ammonia by the gills and those are double backed up organs, red and flared, when systemic ammonia is truly uncontrolled.

Thank you for the explanation. I try to learn something every day. I am off to a good start already!