Firefish stopped eating in QT

[AaronFReef]

I’ve had some real trouble QTing firefish and am on my fourth try here. Got two that have been doing pretty well until the larger of the two decided to stop eating about five days ago. They’re under cupramine and have been since day one which was about 12 days ago when they arrived. It’s a nicely aerated 29g QT with good PVC hiding spots, an aqua clear filter with seasoned sponges from my DT, a large sponge filter and a separate air stone. So it’s luxurious as QT go. No ammonia as shown by Seachem monitor. Copper maintained at 0.5 as shown from seachem test. Haven’t added any cupramine since the second dose and have done four 20% water changes but the level has been good at just around 0.5 +/- 0.1.

The food they were eating was frozen PE mysis. To try and get the finicky one eating, I got some garlic attractant and some SF bay brand reef plankton and fish eggs. I soak the food in that and he comes out from hiding when the other starts feeding but doesn’t seem to eat or even move towards food anymore.

I’ve bought general cure thinking internal parasites could be to blame. Thoughts? Should I soak the food in GC to see if he eats some? Is he just a goner? Carbon to stop copper? I’ve seen him scratch on the bottom one time total. Was just a prophylactic treatment.

 

[Johnny M]

I’ve had some real trouble QTing firefish and am on my fourth try here. Got two that have been doing pretty well until the larger of the two decided to stop eating about five days ago. They’re under cupramine and have been since day one which was about 12 days ago when they arrived. It’s a nicely aerated 29g QT with good PVC hiding spots, an aqua clear filter with seasoned sponges from my DT, a large sponge filter and a separate air stone. So it’s luxurious as QT go. No ammonia as shown by Seachem monitor. Copper maintained at 0.5 as shown from seachem test. Haven’t added any cupramine since the second dose and have done four 20% water changes but the level has been good at just around 0.5 +/- 0.1.

The food they were eating was frozen PE mysis. To try and get the finicky one eating, I got some garlic attractant and some SF bay brand reef plankton and fish eggs. I soak the food in that and he comes out from hiding when the other starts feeding but doesn’t seem to eat or even move towards food anymore.

I’ve bought general cure thinking internal parasites could be to blame. Thoughts? Should I soak the food in GC to see if he eats some? Is he just a goner? Carbon to stop copper? I’ve seen him scratch on the bottom one time total. Was just a prophylactic treatment.

IMO I would use carbon to stop copper. When I add fish to my QT i usually just observe them for several weeks and if notice something then I treat. Couple months ago I had a P. firefish & Rainford's goby in QT. Both were doing fine and eating. 3 weeks into Q the P. firefish stopped eating and hid in corner under pvc pipe. Didn't notice anything on his body. Next day he was dead. R. goby is fine and happy in DT. I added a red firefish & Mccoskers flasher wrasse about 1 month ago - no tx, just observing - and both are doing fine, although wrasse started picking on firefish so I added a divider to the tank and that worked ( 20g Nuvo fusion with several pvc pipes and a few marine pure blocks in RR sump. They like to eat a mix of 0.5mm dried pellets with baby brine shrimp & rotifiers and soaked in Selcoboost for 5 minutes b4 feeding. * I believe in observing and not treating in beginning ( unless I see ich, flukes, velvet, etc... ; When you get the fish & add them to the QT they are already stressed so why add to that by introducing chemical tx "just in case"? Also I have 2 great stores in North & Central NJ that have quality , healthy fish. Both have an extensive quarantine program b4 they're sold.

 

[AquaLifeStudio]

You stated that the fish was in copper from day 1. How quickly did you ramp up Cupramine to full therapeutic level of .5mg/l? Its typically recommended to move slower than what is printed on the bottle.

I would start removing copper till you see the fish eating again.

 

[GoldeneyeRet]

I would move them to a sterile qt if you have kept the copper at a therapeutic level for 12 full days. This would be adequate for a complete course of copper and once out of copper appetite may return.

I would also separate the firefish. Two will not tolerate each other in the long run. Usually are ok for a while but it's a possible cause.

 

[AaronFReef]

You stated that the fish was in copper from day 1. How quickly did you ramp up Cupramine to full therapeutic level of .5mg/l? Its typically recommended to move slower than what is printed on the bottle.

I would start removing copper till you see the fish eating again.

Okay. I also found that when researching what could be wrong. Can the copper cause them to lose appetite? Is it more likely that or that it has internal parasites or anything?

Would the copper have been effective already at 13 days?

 

[AaronFReef]

I would move them to a sterile qt if you have kept the copper at a therapeutic level for 12 full days. This would be adequate for a complete course of copper and once out of copper appetite may return.

I would also separate the firefish. Two will not tolerate each other in the long run. Usually are ok for a while but it's a possible cause.

Oh should have read this before posting again. Great glad to hear they’re done with copper. How long should I give it with the copper removed to see if it was the copper or internal parasites?

There are two firefish but they’re joining a third.

 

[GoldeneyeRet]

Oh should have read this before posting again. Great glad to hear they’re done with copper. How long should I give it with the copper removed to see if it was the copper or internal parasites?

There are two firefish but they’re joining a third.

You cant remove the copper, you must move the fish to a sterile qt. Appetite will return in a couple of days if it was suppressed by the copper.

Firefish will not tolerate other firefish long term so your three will eventually become one unless they form a mated pair, which is unlikely.

 

[AquaLifeStudio]

You cant remove the copper, you must move the fish to a sterile qt.

While moving the fish to another qt tank is fine, your first statement is absolutely not true. Copper can be removed by a few different means; using activated carbon or Cuprisorb, or by performing water changes.

 

[AaronFReef]

While moving the fish to another qt tank is fine, your first statement is absolutely not true. Copper can be removed by a few different means; using activated carbon or Cuprisorb, or by performing water changes.

Thanks. I’ll be doing a water change today and adding the Cuprisorb I have.

 

[GoldeneyeRet]

While moving the fish to another qt tank is fine, your first statement is absolutely not true. Copper can be removed by a few different means; using activated carbon or Cuprisorb, or by performing water changes.

Copper can be removed by several methods, but doing so may defeat the copper treatment. The reason you must move the fish is to leave behind any remaining viable tomonts which could reinfect the fish.

To leave the fish in until your remove copper would require 30 days at therapeutic levels to ensure effective treatment

 

[AquaLifeStudio]

Copper can be removed by several methods, but doing so may defeat the copper treatment. The reason you must move the fish is to leave behind any remaining viable tomonts which could reinfect the fish.

To leave the fish in until your remove copper would require 30 days at therapeutic levels to ensure effective treatment

This, this is a more complete answer and thank you for providing it. I could argue that 76 days @ therapeutic levels would be required to (99.9%) eliminate these parasites before removing copper from the water. This is only in the case that transfering the fish to another sterile container is not possible.

Anything less than 76, and as long as the fish has been in copper for more than ~12 days (since parasites will drop off the fish in less time than this), @ therapeutic levels, transfer to another sterile container is a great practice. Once I switched to doing this i have had great success.

 

[AaronFReef]

I’m familiar with these numbers for no treatment (76 days) but I thought the idea of treating copper is you know you’re eliminating all adult stage ich parasites. I’ve read minimum 30 days in multiple threads including by Humblefish I thought. I know there’s lots of personal opinion on which method to follow to reduce risk to acceptable levels but isn’t a 14 day copper treatment followed by a total 30 day QT also sufficient to many people’s standards? Going to go re-read Humblefish’s QT guide @Humblefish

 

[AaronFReef]

So @Humblefish uses a method where he starts with Prazipro and then does 30 days in copper or an alternative med. I guess I’ll have to start over if I get rid of the copper. Darn.

 

[GoldeneyeRet]

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/my-current-qt-process.483371/

This thread discusses it I think

The idea of a 14 day cooper treatment is not new. Many have accepted it as effective, including Humblefish.

This 14 day method can be cut to 10 days and still be effective, 14 is the recommendation to provide some cushion.

Since you have completed 12 days you can transfer to a sterile tank and be reasonably certain to have eliminated Ich and velvet and still get the fish out of copper to address the appetite. If the copper treatment fails, you would be no worse off than if you abandon treatment now and remove copper.

If you remove the copper without transferring, you will have to retreat with copper (or CP) to address ich and velvet.

Whatever you choose to do I wish you the best.

 

[AquaLifeStudio]

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/my-current-qt-process.483371/

This thread discusses it I think

The idea of a 14 day cooper treatment is not new. Many have accepted it as effective, including Humblefish.

This 14 day method can be cut to 10 days and still be effective, 14 is the recommendation to provide some cushion.

Since you have completed 12 days you can transfer to a sterile tank and be reasonably certain to have eliminated Ich and velvet and still get the fish out of copper to address the appetite. If the copper treatment fails, you would be no worse off than if you abandon treatment now and remove copper.

If you remove the copper without transferring, you will have to retreat with copper (or CP) to address ich and velvet.

Whatever you choose to do I wish you the best.

Great answer. This has worked for me but you have to make sure that the therapeutic levels never dropped below .35mg/l cupramine.

To ensure more accurate readings, I suggest Hanna instruments copper checker.

 

[AaronFReef]

Thanks to you both. I appreciate hearing the logic behind the ideas. It’s really useful.

Luckily I found a way to get the firefish to eat just now. I fed him fish eggs after doing a garlic-infused reef plankton attempt. He showed interest this time. Odd since it’s not the first try. Guess he’s just recovering or acclimating. I’ll leave them in copper now for the full 30 on your recommendations.

 

[Big G]

Glad your fish is eating. Just watch for aggression between the Firefish. It can be very subtle. And one fish will slowly wither and leave only one unless the pair up.
Here's my go to for feeding all fish in DT and QT.

Get a large variety of frozen fish cubes: mysis, brine, krill, chopped clams, cyclops, fish eggs, reef mix, seaweed, and as many others as you can find or desire to try. Take one of each and place into a tupperware and let "slump" in the fridge. Mix a bit. Let set. Then pour off the excess liquid (can cause nitrate & phosphate spikes). Lastly, add a few drops of Zoecon vitamins. It contains lots of proteins from sponges, etc. that the fish only get in the wild. Your fish will love it. Only feed enough for the fish to eat in 1-2 minutes. Feed at least a couple of times a day.

Here's where I got the idea. I just simplified it a bit instead of chopping fresh fish, clams, etc. https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/preparing-frozen-foods-for-my-fish-and-corals.300448/#post-3677350