First cycle Red Sea reef mature kit help.....

[Rscott]

This is the only flow in the tank right now

My vectra M1 running maybe 30 or 40%

 

[Rscott]

I live in Albuquerque and add between 1/3 to 3/4 of a gallon a day to my system. 20 gal display with a 10 gal sump. I would guess my total water volume is about 25 or 26 gal total.

Wow! I guess I need a bigger ATO tank! Geeze!

 

[Rscott]

I noticed today while im sitting at work my ORP is creating up significantly

Just about 200 now
I know what ORP means but the fact that its going up is an indication of what?

 

[Rscott]

Well I tested the ammonia again today

I am suppose to have - significant amount and still show nothing

I am starting to get concerned

 

[Rscott]

Anyone with any thoughts?
Been like talking to myself in here lately

Kinda gave up on my build thread for the same reason

 

[rkpetersen]

Sorry you aren't getting more responses. It's summer, people spend a lot less time online.

Day 3

So i am slightly concerned. As of 5 pm tonight i am in Day 3 by the book.

According to the sheet. I am suppose to have 1.o of ammonia and 10-15 Nitrate

I see zero ammonia in the tank.

Nitrates appear to be between 2 and 5

How can i have nitrate with no ammonia ?
I doubt the bacteria ate all the ammonia in 18 hours.
Also given this morning i had zero ammonia also?

Pretty confused

I wouldn't believe any 'schedule' about how your tank is supposed to cycle.
In general, Red Sea makes many claims and instructions for using its products that seem precise but don't reflect reality for the most part.

A strong living bacterial culture could reduce ammonia to 0 in less than 24 hours, but the only product I'd trust to do this is refrigerated Fritz Turbo Start.
Non-refrigerated bacterial products will never work that fast, and depending on how they were handled, may not work at all.

Checking nitrate level during the initial part of cycling is pointless, because nitrite present will interfere with the nitrate reading.
Only check your nitrate after both ammonia and nitrite have dropped to zero, indicating a fully functional biofilter.

Adding NoPoX at the start of a new tank is useless, imo. Carbon dosing has no place in starting a tank from 0 nitrate and 0 phosphate.

I noticed today while im sitting at work my ORP is creating up significantly

Just about 200 now
I know what ORP means but the fact that its going up is an indication of what?

The Apex ORP probe reading will naturally rise over the first couple of weeks, as it becomes seasoned.
So your rising ORP could in part be artifact related to the probe adjusting to the water.
On the other hand, rising ORP is generally seen as the water becoming 'cleaner', although there are so many exceptions that this rule is pretty useless.
Unless you're running ozone, monitoring ORP has little value. Although if you see it drop suddenly for no obvious reason, it can be an indicator that something has died in your system and now decaying.

Well I tested the ammonia again today

I am suppose to have - significant amount and still show nothing

I am starting to get concerned

First, make sure your test kit is ok. Easiest way is to try a different brand. Or add a Seachem Ammonia Alert.
Assuming your ammonia level really is zero. How are you supplying ammonia to start the cycle?
Dry live rock will provide no ammonia, and without either fish present, a piece of raw table shrimp, or dosing ammonium chloride, your ammonia will stay at 0 and the cycle will not start.
The instructions say to use cured live rock, I suppose they mean that to be their ammonia source.
Or maybe 'Bacto Start'? Not sure exactly what's in that, but if it's not pure ammonium chloride, there's no good reason to use it.

You also mention temperature issues. The combination of summertime room temp plus lighting can result in temp swings.
Easiest way to address this if it's not severe is to use a fan for evaporative cooling.
When you use this cooling method, evaporation increases and an ATO becomes even more important.

 

[Rscott]

Thanks for all the info

Apparently the reef mature kit has something I put in that I believe is the source of ammonia.

I wanted to use this kit because it came with clear directions and I was not relying on he said she said kind of thing

Apparently all I’m doing is wasting 120 gallons of water and a months of my time

Good point on summer
I know some people
Consider this a winter hobby.
For me the point was to have something fun to look at this coming winter. Not just be starting it so I started in the summer

The temperature swings seem to have subsided
I fluctuate maybe 1 degree now

 

[Rscott]

Sorry you aren't getting more responses. It's summer, people spend a lot less time online.



I wouldn't believe any 'schedule' about how your tank is supposed to cycle.
In general, Red Sea makes many claims and instructions for using its products that seem precise but don't reflect reality for the most part.

A strong living bacterial culture could reduce ammonia to 0 in less than 24 hours, but the only product I'd trust to do this is refrigerated Fritz Turbo Start.
Non-refrigerated bacterial products will never work that fast, and depending on how they were handled, may not work at all.

Checking nitrate level during the initial part of cycling is pointless, because nitrite present will interfere with the nitrate reading.
Only check your nitrate after both ammonia and nitrite have dropped to zero, indicating a fully functional biofilter.

Adding NoPoX at the start of a new tank is useless, imo. Carbon dosing has no place in starting a tank from 0 nitrate and 0 phosphate.




The Apex ORP probe reading will naturally rise over the first couple of weeks, as it becomes seasoned.
So your rising ORP could in part be artifact related to the probe adjusting to the water.
On the other hand, rising ORP is generally seen as the water becoming 'cleaner', although there are so many exceptions that this rule is pretty useless.
Unless you're running ozone, monitoring ORP has little value. Although if you see it drop suddenly for no obvious reason, it can be an indicator that something has died in your system and now decaying.



First, make sure your test kit is ok. Easiest way is to try a different brand. Or add a Seachem Ammonia Alert.
Assuming your ammonia level really is zero. How are you supplying ammonia to start the cycle?
Dry live rock will provide no ammonia, and without either fish present, a piece of raw table shrimp, or dosing ammonium chloride, your ammonia will stay at 0 and the cycle will not start.
The instructions say to use cured live rock, I suppose they mean that to be their ammonia source.
Or maybe 'Bacto Start'? Not sure exactly what's in that, but if it's not pure ammonium chloride, there's no good reason to use it.

You also mention temperature issues. The combination of summertime room temp plus lighting can result in temp swings.
Easiest way to address this if it's not severe is to use a fan for evaporative cooling.
When you use this cooling method, evaporation increases and an ATO becomes even more important.

So now that you mention it, I re read the ingredients and I don’t see anything that contains ammonia????

what the heck???

Now I’m totally confused?

I hate to do this but thinking I need some help before I ruin this.

#reefsquad

 

[Crabs McJones]

So now that you mention it, I re read the ingredients and I don’t see anything that contains ammonia????

what the heck???

Now I’m totally confused?

I hate to do this but thinking I need some help before I ruin this.

#reefsquad

don't ever hate or feel ashamed to tag for help. that's what were here for
Perhaps something in the kit is broken down into ammonia via your live bacteria. I'm not familiar with this process but I'm sure someone will be

 

[dbl]

Sorry I can't be of any help as I'm not familiar with the kit/program. But I would imagine ammonia is/becomes present with the breakdown of some of the ingredients in the kit, although not listed as an ingredient on a label.

 

[Rscott]

don't ever hate or feel ashamed to tag for help. that's what were here for
Perhaps something in the kit is broken down into ammonia via your live bacteria. I'm not familiar with this process but I'm sure someone will be

Thanks For the reply

I thought I was doing the right thing by getting a Red Sea product

I just did some googling and apparently others have had issues with this.

Wondering if I should put a piece of shrimp in

 

[Rscott]

Sorry I can't be of any help as I'm not familiar with the kit/program. But I would imagine ammonia is/becomes present with the breakdown of some of the ingredients in the kit, although not listed as an ingredient on a label.

Thanks

I think the issue is that I made the mistake of assuming this would be ok with dry rock ( or in my case Carib Sea life rock)

The directions now that I see it say live rock

So maybe that is my issue

 

[Lasse]

Have you any test for nitrite (NO2)? Does your Nitrate test still show numbers? I know it is worthless in this stage as mentioned before - but if it shows numbers - it indicates that you have nitrites in your water. Please confirm if there is nitrite in your water, hence we can see where in the cycle process you are. I have not used Reef Seas mature kit, but I think it is important to add bacteria every day. I´m also doubtful to using NoPox in the start but I recommend you to follow their instructions because it is probably a system in the method

Sincerely Lasse

 

[IslandLifeReef]

@Rscott, first take a deep breath and slow down. The reef mature kit does contain elements that produce ammonia, nitrate, and phosphate. Also, you can use it with dry rock. The instruction do day cured live rock, but go on to say if you don't have any, to use another media that supports the growth of the bacteria.

As @rkpetersen stated, a strong bacteria could lower the ammonia to zero in 24 hours or less. The instructions stated that on day 3, you should see about 1 ppm of ammonia. You measured the morning of day 3 and had about .15 ppm ammonia. Later that day you had 0 ppm ammonia. That tells me that your tank is cycling the way you want it to.

If you haven't started to run a skimmer, I would suggest you start. The stuff they have you add contains nitrates. They also have you carbon dose to feed the nitrate reducing bacteria that they also have you adding. If you don't run a skimmer, you might be fine. However, you may also create problems by not running the skimmer as instructed. These problems could be higher than normal nitrates after the cycle is complete to a tough to battle bacteria bloom.

Keep up with the program you started. It is only a three week program. Three weeks in this hobby is nothing. The times I see people struggle with cycling a tank usually occur when they try to mix different types of cycling methods, or become impatient. Pick one method, and stick with it.

Also, don't get to hung up on exact numbers and time frames. Don't treat the instructions as day 3 meaning 72 hours. Look at it more as a guide. Hope this helps.

 

[Rscott]

Thanks for the comments

I will test for new results today when I get home
I did see the ORP dropping this morning
Whatever that means ....

 

[Style185]

If I can give any advice it would be don't rush things even with a magic kit that says your tank will be cycled so soon. It's not something that happens over night just hang on tight and in time you'll have a beautiful DT happy reefing!

 

[IslandLifeReef]

Thanks for the comments

I will test for new results today when I get home
I did see the ORP dropping this morning
Whatever that means ....

I wouldn't worry about any tests except what the reef mature program is telling you to test. Even then, those are ballpark numbers.

If it makes you feel any better, I read your build thread and the rock you used is suppose to have nitrifying bacteria on it as well as the live sand you used. That, in combination with the nitrifying and denitrifying bacteria you are adding would explain the quicker drop in ammonia.

Personally, I don't see anything to be concerned about with your numbers at this time.

 

[Rscott]

Thanks to all that replied

I got home from work this evening to a much clearer tank

Which further concerns me since I have no skimmer right now. I expected it to get
Much worse unless my bacteria are all dead

Ran a few tests this afternoon

I can’t figure out how to use these Salifert kits

Are you suppose to put the cup all on the white background or half and half and compare colors?

Picture 1 correct or picture 2 ???

 

[Rscott]

As best I can tell,

Nitrates look about 5

All went up for some reason to 9.1

Nitrates were between 2 and 5 perhaps

Still zero ammonia

 

[Rscott]

Also, I have one of those ultra low phosphorus Hannah checkers I got from a friend
No idea what it even does yet but I ran the test today for kicks.

Said it was 19? Make any sense?