first icp test ,what to do?

[Superlightman]

hello,
i just got my first icp test,I'm a bit loosen, what to do if there is too much?

 

[Lasse]

Do you use tap water or RODI water?

Critical IMO

Zn and Cu - mostly Cu

Here is my results during the last 4 years as a comparison

​

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Superlightman]

I use rodi now,but befor tape water but i think the problem come from my old wave box i changed it last mont because the magnet was broken and rost go to the water.
what is IMO?
what can i do? could suprisorb from seachem be enough?

 

[Lasse]

IMO = In My Opinion Internet slang

Do your snails, hermits and shrimps go well? Have you normal green algae growth on your aquarium windows. If the answers is - well and yes - no problem with the copper in this concentration (in your aquarium). If you think that you have solved the problem - and see no problems with the aquarium for the moment - I would let it be for a while and check up with a new ICP in a month or two. If you look at my figures - the zero values since the start of this year is just wait and see . haven´t done anything else. If you run GFO - some copper will be taken up in that too.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Smarkow]

The elevated copper (if accurate, and there is some question on the accuracy of "hobby-grade" ICP) would concern me most. In addition to metal absorbing resins, water changes would solve your issues.

 

[Smarkow]

Skeptical Reefkeeping 12

Triton Lab ICP-OES Testing of a Certified Artificial Saltwater Standard By Rich Ross and Dr. Chris Maupin At MACNA 25 in Denver, the potential for the new

reefs.com

 

[Superlightman]

Everything seem to be fine vs shrimps, algua, just some sps are bleaching actually. I bought a salifert copper test to be able to see befor and after water change. I just tested it and it show nothing?! So is the salifert or the icp bad?

 

[Lasse]

Your ICP report a Cu concentration below the detectable part with salifert. The limit is 0.05 mg/L = 50 µg/L. Your result is 25 µg/L. You can´t use salifert in this case.

If everything is fine - i would just await next analyse. For me - it is not the actual value that´s interest me - it is how it develops between different tests.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Superlightman]

So why the salifert show numbers that is not relevant,it should be able to check dangerous amount, because if I look the icp test it look very dangerous, I did big water changer, put poly Filter and zeolite also.

 

[Lasse]

I´m a big fan of ICP tests but there is a danger with them. If they show high values of something without the aquarium show up problems - they can promote actions of the aquarist that´s not is needed leading to unstable aquariums. You did a WC as a safety precaution - yes it can be but it can also be the other way around. Unequal mixed salt batches can give high concentrations of some of the trace elements. If you look at my graph - the high top of Zn is an analyse after a WC of around 70 % !

Remember - chemical analyses is only a tool - they have always to be checked with how it looks like in your aquarium. According to copper - the algae growth on the windows is for me the best indicator if I have toxic amount of copper or not. the toxicity of different compounds is also depended of the water - one concentration can create problems in one aquarium and no in other. This is especially the case in freshwater there pH, soft or hard water, differents salt´s concentration and so on can create different situations according to toxicity.

Even ICP can show wrong - I do not know which lab you have used and how good they are but I react to some of their recommended values. Especially - manganese. Your value is lower than Tritons recommended value - but your ICP provider list it as too high.

You have now put in three different actions - 1 that can decrease or even also increase the concentrations of unwanted elements (WC) and two that can decrease some of the elevated elements but also decrease other elements thats is in level with your needs (poly filter and zeolite)

Your salifert test´s detection level is higher than your real content of Cu (salifert can´t detect below 50 µg/L - and report 0 if it is lower than 50 µg/L

There is no hobby test that can - IMO - detect as low as 25 µg/L copper in saltwater (including Hanna Checker)

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Superlightman]

Th

I´m a big fan of ICP tests but there is a danger with them. If they show high values of something without the aquarium show up problems - they can promote actions of the aquarist that´s not is needed leading to unstable aquariums. You did a WC as a safety precaution - yes it can be but it can also be the other way around. Unequal mixed salt batches can give high concentrations of some of the trace elements. If you look at my graph - the high top of Zn is an analyse after a WC of around 70 % !

Remember - chemical analyses is only a tool - they have always to be checked with how it looks like in your aquarium. According to copper - the algae growth on the windows is for me the best indicator if I have toxic amount of copper or not. the toxicity of different compounds is also depended of the water - one concentration can create problems in one aquarium and no in other. This is especially the case in freshwater there pH, soft or hard water, differents salt´s concentration and so on can create different situations according to toxicity.

Even ICP can show wrong - I do not know which lab you have used and how good they are but I react to some of their recommended values. Especially - manganese. Your value is lower than Tritons recommended value - but your ICP provider list it as too high.

You have now put in three different actions - 1 that can decrease or even also increase the concentrations of unwanted elements (WC) and two that can decrease some of the elevated elements but also decrease other elements thats is in level with your needs (poly filter and zeolite)

Your salifert test´s detection level is higher than your real content of Cu (salifert can´t detect below 50 µg/L - and report 0 if it is lower than 50 µg/L

There is no hobby test that can - IMO - detect as low as 25 µg/L copper in saltwater (including Hanna Checker)

Sincerely Lasse

Thanks for your answer, what you mean with :the algae growth on the windows is for me the best indicator if I have toxic amount of copper or not? When you have to much the algae don't grow?
What is the use of the salifert test if he can't detect dangerous level early enough ?

 

[Lasse]

What is the use of the salifert test if he can't detect dangerous level early enough ?

Exactly - I do not use it

the algae growth on the windows is for me the best indicator if I have toxic amount of copper or not? When you have to much the algae don't grow?

Yes - microalgae is among the most sensitive organisms against copper. If they grow in normal rate - it is not a cow on the ice even if the test indicate elevated Cu concentrations - IMO

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Superlightman]

Exactly - I do not use it


Yes - microalgae is among the most sensitive organisms against copper. If they grow in normal rate - it is not a cow on the ice even if the test indicate elevated Cu concentrations - IMO

Sincerely Lasse

look i found some guy in France some years ago that analysed the différents salts,some are loaded with heavy metalls! don't know if it was a good idea i used the tropic marin pro reef for my water change!

 

[Lasse]

Is known as a good salt - but I do not think it is a brand issue. If this test (the one you refer to) should be redone - I´m sure that the result should differ a lot. Different salts content of trace metals can differ both inside a batch and between batches. Some of these trace metals should be in the order of some grams to each metric ton batch. It is - IMO - impossible to mix a batch in that way that you get an even distribution of most trace compounds. This is the main reason why I do not do WC - instead I rely on ICP measurements and ad (in liquid form) different trace elements. If I should do WC - I prefer different manufactures basic salts, not the pro, bio or whatever versions.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Superlightman]

ok thanks ,so you not do water change ,but icp not test the full spectrum of the minerals that are in salt water (more than 70),wouldn't you get some trouble after some time just adding what is in the icp test?

 

[Lasse]

You can see my aquarium here and my thread here

For the moment - the aquarium have been run without regular WC since spring 2017. I January 2018 - it was a 70 % WC during a week. And if the ICP not test for some compounds - I do not think they are in the salt anyhow. The only ones I do not regular test for is rubidium and fluoride. I have done a test of these two and I´m know I am low in F. But most salt is low in that too.

Sincerely Lasse