First QT all fish died- need help

[rpeters]

So received my first fish Thursday for QT tank while my DT cycles, was 3 firefish and 4 pajama cardinals. 1 firefish was DOA and one wasn't looking the best and swimming a little sideways. Floated and drip acclimated and added to QT, most were swimming and all ate. move to day two, 1 cardinal not really swimming like the others and a firefish leaning sideways under a piece of pipe in there for shelter. later that day the cardinal died followed by both firefish later that day. Left with 3 cardinal fish Saturday they were swimming and eating and all looked good as of 130am this morning and when woke at 730 they were all dead.

There was slight trace of ammonia this morning but not sure if its due to the dead fish as it was 0 yesterday, no nitrites, 1.025, I'm not sure what to test or what to look for at this point, I don't want to order more not knowing if it was the fish or me that caused this. any help is appreciated.

 

[arking_mark]

So received my first fish Thursday for QT tank while my DT cycles, was 3 firefish and 4 pajama cardinals. 1 firefish was DOA and one wasn't looking the best and swimming a little sideways. Floated and drip acclimated and added to QT, most were swimming and all ate. move to day two, 1 cardinal not really swimming like the others and a firefish leaning sideways under a piece of pipe in there for shelter. later that day the cardinal died followed by both firefish later that day. Left with 3 cardinal fish Saturday they were swimming and eating and all looked good as of 130am this morning and when woke at 730 they were all dead.

There was slight trace of ammonia this morning but not sure if its due to the dead fish as it was 0 yesterday, no nitrites, 1.025, I'm not sure what to test or what to look for at this point, I don't want to order more not knowing if it was the fish or me that caused this. any help is appreciated.

Sounds like bad batch from store or something happed during transit.

What size was the qt? How were you monitoring water quality?

Would also recommend waiting for DT to cycle prior to starting with ONE hardy fish.

 

[rpeters]

QT is 20 gallon, test kit is red sea, also have a seachem ammonia badge in the tank and hanna alk tester

 

[rpeters]

Also to add, a friend got 5 cardinal fish in same order, he has lost 1 but others still appear to be doing fine. So not sure if its bad luck, something caused from the firefish or I'm just a bad fish dad

 

[arking_mark]

Also to add, a friend got 5 cardinal fish in same order, he has lost 1 but others still appear to be doing fine. So not sure if its bad luck, something caused from the firefish or I'm just a bad fish dad

Did you do frequent water changes?

 

[glagunda]

So received my first fish Thursday for QT tank while my DT cycles, was 3 firefish and 4 pajama cardinals. 1 firefish was DOA and one wasn't looking the best and swimming a little sideways. Floated and drip acclimated and added to QT, most were swimming and all ate. move to day two, 1 cardinal not really swimming like the others and a firefish leaning sideways under a piece of pipe in there for shelter. later that day the cardinal died followed by both firefish later that day. Left with 3 cardinal fish Saturday they were swimming and eating and all looked good as of 130am this morning and when woke at 730 they were all dead.

There was slight trace of ammonia this morning but not sure if its due to the dead fish as it was 0 yesterday, no nitrites, 1.025, I'm not sure what to test or what to look for at this point, I don't want to order more not knowing if it was the fish or me that caused this. any help is appreciated.

Different salinity at the pet store. One of our stores keep their fish in low salinity

 

[SoreninKL]

sorry to hear that!

just a few questions:

how long was the shipment?
what was the salinity in their bags?

did you contact the shop, do they have a DOA guaranty?

do you have a shop near by?

 

[Idoc]

You might want to consider only getting one fish the next time for a new cycled tank. The nitrifying bacterial colonies will not be sufficiently built up to handle an immediate bioload from 7 fish.

Hopefully you receive a little healthier fish upon arrival next time.

 

[rpeters]

The Shipment was over night, the salinity was matched perfect, even called in advance to fins out what they ship at, yes the DOA guarantee was submitted with in the allowed time. There was no water change to this point as it was only a few days and everything was reading in range.

 

[arking_mark]

When you are seeing death or ailing fish in qt medication and frequent water changes can really help.

 

[Yuki Rihwa]

How big the QT tank, I'm gonna say your got bio load spike by added too many fish at one time, Even with a well cycled tank most folks only add 1 or 2 fish every 2 weeks or a month, 7 fishes 1 time way too much for QT too handle. Also, keep multi Firefish is a bad idea they kill each other unless you have true mated pair.

 

[SoreninKL]

The Shipment was over night, the salinity was matched perfect, even called in advance to fins out what they ship at, yes the DOA guarantee was submitted with in the allowed time. There was no water change to this point as it was only a few days and everything was reading in range.

then perhaps you had bad luck with this fish. I would try a local shop to choose the fish you like and see their health. I personally only buy fish which spend at least a few days at the shop and don't have obvious signs of parasite/ disease.
once home I follow my quarantine procedure, that doesn't mean I haven't lost a fish during quarantine.....

good luck with your next batch

cheers

 

[SoreninKL]

How big the QT tank, I'm gonna say your got bio load spike by added too many fish at one time,0eEven with a well cycled tank most folks only add 1 or 2 fish every 2 weeks or a month, 7 fishes 1 time way too much for QT too handle. Also, keep multi Firefish is a bad idea they kill each other unless you have true mated pair.

+1 on this! forgot to mention that [emoji15]

 

[billw]

Different salinity at the pet store. One of our stores keep their fish in low salinity

I've seen 1.014 coming out of LFS's. Buyers who don't check could be causing issues with their new stock. I always run my introduction tank/treatment tank at 1.018 and check the salinity before introducing stock so that I can make appropriate adjustments first.

 

[rpeters]

How big the QT tank, I'm gonna say your got bio load spike by added too many fish at one time, Even with a well cycled tank most folks only add 1 or 2 fish every 2 weeks or a month, 7 fishes 1 time way too much for QT too handle. Also, keep multi Firefish is a bad idea they kill each other unless you have true mated pair.

QT tank is 20 gallon and display is 120 with 40 gallon fuge, and the fish were like quarter size max so not like adding large fish and there was no measurable increased in ammonia and nitrite was still 0

I've seen 1.014 coming out of LFS's. Buyers who don't check could be causing issues with their new stock. I always run my introduction tank/treatment tank at 1.018 and check the salinity before introducing stock so that I can make appropriate adjustments first.

I tested the water they came in at as well before adding as well as still ran drip acclimation.

 

[rpeters]

Did you do frequent water changes?

What is considered frequent and would one need to if ammonia and nitrites are not present?

 

[arking_mark]

7 fish in an uncycled 20gal qt with death occurring, I would do daily waters changes of 25-50%.

 

[ngoodermuth]

Drip acclimation is actually not suggested for shipped fish. What I usually do, is use a needle to poke a small hole below the water line and test a few drops for salinity. Then cover the hole with scotch tape and float the bag to temp acclimate while I adjust the salinity in the QT as needed. Once they are temp and salinity match, open and immediately remove the fish from the bag and plop them right in.

The issue with shipping, is the ammonia will build up rather quickly in those little bags. But, because of the limited oxygen in the bag the ph is lower keeping ammonia in a less-toxic form. The minute you open the bag, oxygen gets in and the ph rises, causing the ammonia to become deadly toxic :/

Also, using a bottled bacteria product (like biospira or dr tim's) can greatly reduce the risk of ammonia spikes in an uncycled QT. I have a feeling the fish received some ammonia exposure during acclimation, and then the overnight spike was enough to put them over. So sorry for your losses This post might be helpful for your next attempt:

Ammonia Control in a Hospital Tank

https://www.reef2reef.com/index.php?threads/Ammonia-Control-in-a-Hospital-Tank.296119/

 

[billw]

Drip acclimation is actually not suggested for shipped fish.

+1!

 

[rpeters]

Drip acclimation is actually not suggested for shipped fish. What I usually do, is use a needle to poke a small hole below the water line and test a few drops for salinity. Then cover the hole with scotch tape and float the bag to temp acclimate while I adjust the salinity in the QT as needed. Once they are temp and salinity match, open and immediately remove the fish from the bag and plop them right in.

The issue with shipping, is the ammonia will build up rather quickly in those little bags. But, because of the limited oxygen in the bag the ph is lower keeping ammonia in a less-toxic form. The minute you open the bag, oxygen gets in and the ph rises, causing the ammonia to become deadly toxic :/

Also, using a bottled bacteria product (like biospira or dr tim's) can greatly reduce the risk of ammonia spikes in an uncycled QT. I have a feeling the fish received some ammonia exposure during acclimation, and then the overnight spike was enough to put them over. So sorry for your losses This post might be helpful for your next attempt:

Ammonia Control in a Hospital Tank

https://www.reef2reef.com/index.php?threads/Ammonia-Control-in-a-Hospital-Tank.296119/

Thanks, read and will try this route once QT is cleaned and dried properly.