First Tank with Sump -- Questions

[rja]

Hey all,
I will be buying a used 75g reef system next month and this will be my first tank with a sump. I have some questions in regards to plumbing and whatnot. The tank itself is just an aqueon 75 that was drilled by the LFS and has been running for over a year. I am a little worried about seals and everything because this will be the largest tank I have ever owned. I will go through and re-do all the plumbing as it is all soft lines. Any ideal schematics for plumbing a reef tank to ensure that there is minimal noise? I would like to add valves on the return and overflow. Also, I want to add a check valve on the return line in case the pump ever dies.

The sump itself is just a 20L. There are no baffles in it at all, I am thinking I might want to either put baffles in or go with a completely new pre built sump. But at that point, I would be spending a lot more than I would like to for subjective reasons. I have heard that many have had success with baffle-less sumps so I might go that route for most room. My only thing is that I will not have a really good area for ATO. Since the entire 20L will have to drop in water enough to trigger an ATO sensor. So, maybe it is best that I keep the whole left side of the sump open with a filter sock holder on the left and two baffles in the return section? Eventually, perhaps I could add rubble rock and chaeto to the open area of the sump?

Please admire my awful handy work:

Beyond the sump and plumbing situation, I am overall just curious on how I should fill the tank. I plan to create a rock scape and add sand in first. Then, I will fill the entire tank with RODI water over the course of a couple days. Do I just fill both the display and sump up completely and kind of decide where my water line will be in the return section? Will I run into issues where there is a difference in volumetric flow rate between the pump and overflow line? So, one tank is filling quicker than the other? Then do I tune my valves based on that? This process is kind of scary to me. I am very handy but I always feel like my tanks are going to explode at any given moment.

I suppose the overflow line will be a fixed flow rate based on how much water I am supplying to the display. I feel like the only thing that can happen as far as a difference in tank fill rates is my display filling too quick and overflow not being able to evacuate the water quick enough. Should I mark a line on the tank and see if it stays at that line? if its overflowing, choke the valve on the return line?

Any advice would be highly appreciated!

 

[o2manyfish]

Do Not Rely on a check valve. Plan to run your sump at a low enough level that if the pump fails, or the power goes out (much more likely) that the tank drains into the sump safely without the sump overflowing.

Relying on a check valve is like expecting a drunken frat boy to use protection at cheerleader camp. It may work when you need it, but chances are you are ^*(*Y$$#*.

A one year old tank you don't have to worry about the age of the glass or the silicone. My Dad still is running my 60g tall tank I got when I was turned 13 - 40+ years ago. As long as the stand and the floor the stand is going on is leveled/shimmed so that the tank is fully supported on a flat surface the tank will be fine.

Dave B

 

[SteveMM62Reef]

You posted your sump is 20L, that’s just a little over Five Gallons. That is no where near big enough for a 75 Gallon Aquarium. I would look on Craigslist and Facebook Market Place for a used sump, and possibly a Skimmer to start out. Also, since the heat of Summer is just around the corner, use a DC Return Pump, the put less heat into the water, and are nicer to your electric bill.

 

[Subsea]

Check valve on return line is a likely failure point. To prevent syphoning, provide an air disconnect when display tank drops 1-2”. The valve on return line is unnecessary and Unwise. If your thoughts were to balance flow, you will be disappointed. Make return line at least one size bigger than pump line. Also, in the event a snail or eventual biological growth restricts flow back to sump use a second return line slightly above the first.

 

[Subsea]

Any advice would be highly appreciated!

I perused some of your threads and noted your passion for your fresh water planted aquarium. Consider a mixed garden Caribbean lagoon with ornamental & utilitarian macro algaes. I like lower light macros like Red Grapes/Bortacladia. Even fast growing Caulerpa’s are tamed under low light.

https://www.marineplantbook.com/.
Marine Plants in The Aquarium" is an online resource for the identification and care of marine macroalgae and seagrasses in the saltwater aquarium. The guide features over 70 of the most commonly available species of marine plants with full color photographs, detailed descriptions and aquarium care. Many of the species included in the guide are available to purchase online from Gulf Coast Ecosystems. Click on each link below to begin the exploration.

Table of Contents​

About The Author	Introduction	Marine Plants In The Aquarium
The Refugium	Substrates	Selecting Quality Plants
Aquascapes	Lighting	Reproductive Cycle
Filtration	Nutrients	Maintenance
Case For Caulerpa	Green Macroalgae	Red Macroalgae
Brown Macroalgae	Seagrass	Mangroves
References	Glossary	Online Articles

Marine Plants in the Aquarium

macroalgae, marine plants, caulerpa, refugium substrate, marine macroalgae for sale

www.marineplantbook.com

Botryocladia is a beautiful specimen that does very well in the marine aquarium. It features stiff, lightly calcified branches with bright red air bladders. It resembles a cluster of grapes and is sometimes referred to as Red Grape Caulerpa, although it is not a species of Caulerpa at all. Depending on the species, it can grow in rather large clumps attached to rocks and coral fragments in depths of up to 30 feet or more. It is very hardy and seems to do well in aquariums with good water quality and low to medium lighting. There are several varieties available in the aquarium trade, but identification can be difficult as they all have the same basic

 

[mnl119]

You posted your sump is 20L

I think he means "20 Long" as in 20 gallons.

A baffleless sump will have the water level constantly changing due to evaporation. This makes setting a skimmer difficult as the level in the skimmer will be constantly changing. They sell "kits" on eBay to put baffles in your sump. They are not that expensive.

 

[Subsea]

Let’s talk biological filtration.

Start at the bottom with substrate filtration: include a false bottom with a plenum that receives positive pressure from a pump to flow up thru the substrate providing oxygen rich water that promotes nitrification bacteria and oxidation chemistry. Also consider a cryptic refugium with live rock

 

[rja]

You posted your sump is 20L, that’s just a little over Five Gallons. That is no where near big enough for a 75 Gallon Aquarium. I would look on Craigslist and Facebook Market Place for a used sump, and possibly a Skimmer to start out. Also, since the heat of Summer is just around the corner, use a DC Return Pump, the put less heat into the water, and are nicer to your electric bill.

20 Long (20 gallons)

 

[cwerner]

Something like this makes it pretty easy OP:

Fiji Cube Sump Baffle Kit - 20 Gallon Long | eBay

This DIY sump kit is designed to convert a 10 gallon glass aquarium tank into a fully functional sump. 1x fixed height baffle slot (1st slot). 1x water height adjustable baffle slot (2nd slot). 1x bubble trap baffle slot (3rd slot).

www.ebay.com

However, you can make your own much cheaper with some effort. A simple glass cutter, some silicone, and some craft glass from most home improvement stores will be able to get you a very functional sump that will do everything the DIY acrylic ones will. It also makes it a bit easier to tie in a filter roller at some point, which I very highly recommend. I know that KLIR makes mounts that could fit right in a sump.

 

[SteveMM62Reef]

Okay, but I still think you will be better off purchasing a used sump. I got a LifeReef Sump, and a Trigger System that has a Refugium in the middle of it. If you decide to install your own baffling. In the final baffle, you need a Course Filter before your return pump to keep any debris out of it. I purchased some Woven Pond Filter Media, from a Local Garden shop, for this.

 

[X-37B]

I think he means "20 Long" as in 20 gallons.

A baffleless sump will have the water level constantly changing due to evaporation. This makes setting a skimmer difficult as the level in the skimmer will be constantly changing. They sell "kits" on eBay to put baffles in your sump. They are not that expensive.

Baffleless sumps do not fluctuate with an ato. Thats what their for. I run 2 40 baffles sumps skimmer never misses a beat.
I have a fuge in one but I will admit its not ideal but I mostly turn old dead live rock into live again.

 

[PotatoPig]

“Then, I will fill the entire tank with RODI water over the course of a couple days.”

Two comments on this:

1. Just in case you didn’t mean “RODI mixed with salt”, you need to mix your salt and water **before** putting it in the tank.
2. While filling your tank track how much water you put in. This is your only chance to really know your water volume accurately, which may come in use later on if you need to add medications.

Other comments:

When filling the tank put a plate on the sand bed (if you have one) and pour onto that. It’ll minimize how much dust gets kicked up.

You fill the tank. Once it reaches the overflow it’ll start to drain into the sump. Then you add water to the sump until it’s at the level you want it at.

Seconding recommendations to not rely on check valves. A flood could easily cause $10k+ damage depending where your tank is, don’t trust a valve with this. Set up your sump so the pump is behind a baffle that limits access to water so if the drain fails you won’t pump the whole sump into the DT, and set the return nozzle high enough in the DT that when it siphons it’ll drain a limited amount of water that your sump can accommodate without flooding.

For baffles check out your local glass store, you should be able to get these very economically there and then use reef safe silicone to fix them in place.

For plumbing - seriously consider flexible pvc tubing. It’s cheap, fast and easy.

 

[Crustaceon]

A check valve on the return line is completely unnecessary. Your maximum water level in the sump should be set by allowing display water to backflow as much as it naturally would. Ideally, you want enough sump volume to contain any water that siphons back and not so much volume that a clogged drain in the display will allow the return pump to overflow the display.

 

[rja]

“Then, I will fill the entire tank with RODI water over the course of a couple days.”

Two comments on this:

1. Just in case you didn’t mean “RODI mixed with salt”, you need to mix your salt and water **before** putting it in the tank.
2. While filling your tank track how much water you put in. This is your only chance to really know your water volume accurately, which may come in use later on if you need to add medications.

Other comments:

When filling the tank put a plate on the sand bed (if you have one) and pour onto that. It’ll minimize how much dust gets kicked up.

You fill the tank. Once it reaches the overflow it’ll start to drain into the sump. Then you add water to the sump until it’s at the level you want it at.

Seconding recommendations to not rely on check valves. A flood could easily cause $10k+ damage depending where your tank is, don’t trust a valve with this. Set up your sump so the pump is behind a baffle that limits access to water so if the drain fails you won’t pump the whole sump into the DT, and set the return nozzle high enough in the DT that when it siphons it’ll drain a limited amount of water that your sump can accommodate without flooding.

For baffles check out your local glass store, you should be able to get these very economically there and then use reef safe silicone to fix them in place.

For plumbing - seriously consider flexible pvc tubing. It’s cheap, fast and easy.

I have mixed salt in tanks before on first fill when using entirely dry rock and sand. I will not be making 90 gallons of saltwater outside of the tank. I will be using rinsed and dried sand. I think I will swap the tank for a 29 gallon because of the extra height so all the volume above the return line can be contained in the sump plus the existing water in it. I will probably use ebay baffles.

 

[rja]

Baffleless sumps do not fluctuate with an ato. Thats what their for. I run 2 40 baffles sumps skimmer never misses a beat.
I have a fuge in one but I will admit its not ideal but I mostly turn old dead live rock into live again.

my only concern is that id be losing about a half inch of water until my ato will trigger. so 30x12x0.5” is about 3/4 gallon per ato refill which is probably around 1% of total system volume. i suppose its not that big of a deal.

 

[X-37B]

my only concern is that id be losing about a half inch of water until my ato will trigger. so 30x12x0.5” is about 3/4 gallon per ato refill which is probably around 1% of total system volume. i suppose its not that big of a deal.

What ato do you use?
Thats not normal a 1/2" drop but ok.
With the Tunze you can hear it go on and off with no visible level drop throughout the day.
Been using it this way for 7+ years now. 40 sump holds around 15g's.
SG never varies except for skimmer loss.
Other 40 sump holds around 25g's.

 

[rja]

What ato do you use?
Thats not normal a 1/2" drop but ok.
With the Tunze you can hear it go on and off with no visible level drop throughout the day.
Been using it this way for 7+ years now. 40 sump holds around 15g's.
SG never varies except for skimmer loss.
Other 40 sump holds around 25g's.

I have a reefbreeders prism but also a few others i can’t remember the name of. None are Tunze but I hear that it’s the best standalone ATO. The prism is very inaccurate but works great in the tiny return section of a biocube.

 

[mnl119]

Baffleless sumps do not fluctuate with an ato. Thats what their for. I run 2 40 baffles sumps skimmer never misses a beat.
I have a fuge in one but I will admit its not ideal but I mostly turn old dead live rock into live again.

That's a fair point. I use a JBJ ATO and the float has about 1/2" of travel to it, but I have baffles in my sump (trigger crystal sumps).