First Time QTing - fish in distress?

[aerofly0610]

Hey there, so this is the first time I am ever doing QT. I have a new 75g that is set up and end of the cycle so I wanted to get started on some livestock. I picked up 4 fish (daughter picked them out and I did a quick check for compatibility) from a LFS. 2 clowns, 1 fire goby, and 1 Kupang damsel. My acclimation process was based on what I read on R2R. I floated the bags for temp and matched the QT salinity to the LFS' water, which was about 1.029. My plan was to slowly bring the salinity down to my DT of 1.026 then do copper treatment for safety.

However, after 24 hours I think the damsel and goby are in distress. The clowns are swimming around just fine and have a healthy appetite (frozen brine this morning, then some flakes at night). I haven't really seen the Goby eat nor the Damsel. The goby has been hiding under the PVC fittings for most of the time. Since Goby's like sand, I went ahead and added a plastic dish with sand to see if that will help. The damsel has done some swimming but will return to laying at an angle against things, below I have a picture of the damsel in the tank corner. I feel the goby and damsel are breathing harder than the clowns.

The clowns and the damsel where in the same tank, while the goby was in a different one at the LFS. However, the LFS said they use one system so all their fish can be acclimated together. LFS has pretty clean tanks and their livestock always looks better than the local chain store. However, that doesn't mean their system is free from disease.

So I really don't know what is going on with the fish, but I decided to start copper just now. It's possible they have velvet based on the hiding, swimming into the powerhead, lack of eating, and breathing heavier. No visual illness on the outside of the fish. I did a low dose to start and will ramp up over a few days, or I can speed that up if need be.

I have an ammonia alert badge and it is zero. Nitrites and Nitrates are near zero since the water is fresh with a bit of DT water mixed in (RODI and reef crystals). I had a sponge soaking in my sump that I have floating in the QT tank for bac. I also added bio spira to assist with the biological filter.

Tank is a 10g with a HOB filter. Small powerhead and an air stone for flow/oxygen. Tank hood has built-in white LEDs which I have off now should it be velvet. So I guess my question would be am I on the right course or am I missing something?

(Sorry for the blurry, I had to zoom in since he's small)

 

[aerofly0610]

Update, went back to check after posting and the goby was dead. Had to tell the 5yo and oh man there were tears. Hopefully, I can save the damsel and the clowns make it as well. Not sure what is going on as I am still green.

 

[Reef AquaCult]

does LFS run copper in their system? Before I’ve had fish look fine at LFS and as soon as they’re removed from the low copper levels into a no med QT the fish deteriorate quickly. It sounds like you did most everything correctly. I would ask if the fish were breathing heavy at the store and eating. Sometimes you’re too excited and don’t meticulously go over each fish and check their health. My practice now is getting copper power level at 1.0 ppm by Hanna checker before putting fish in QT. That was if the fish has velvet and in this case it very well may have, then it will at least be suppressed and you can tirarte up the level to 2.0 over a few days.

From your description you did a great job, but in the future I wound already have copper in your system, especially if the fish is coming from copper at lfs which it likely is.

 

[aerofly0610]

does LFS run copper in their system? Before I’ve had fish look fine at LFS and as soon as they’re removed from the low copper levels into a no med QT the fish deteriorate quickly. It sounds like you did most everything correctly. I would ask if the fish were breathing heavy at the store and eating. Sometimes you’re too excited and don’t meticulously go over each fish and check their health. My practice now is getting copper power level at 1.0 ppm by Hanna checker before putting fish in QT. That was if the fish has velvet and in this case it very well may have, then it will at least be suppressed and you can tirarte up the level to 2.0 over a few days.

From your description you did a great job, but in the future I wound already have copper in your system, especially if the fish is coming from copper at lfs which it likely is.

Thanks @Reef AquaCult for the response and for the feedback as I was nervous before I even got the fish. I read a ton of threads so I wouldn’t go in blind but still learning the hard way.

I can ask the LFS about copper but I doubt it. They had verts in most of the tanks.

I think going forward I will just start with .5 - 1 ppm of copper power when adding fish to QT.

 

[Reef AquaCult]

No problem. Also fish can easily adjust to lower salinities, it’s much harder on them to go up in salinity. Just make sure the QT water is the same or slightly lower when you put the new fish in. The fish that died was most likely already sick and doomed before you brought it home. It’s ok to put the fish immediately in 1.0 ppm copper. Be sure to use Copper Power and use Hanna checker to measure copper levels. Also consider using General Cure During QT to cover for brook and uronema, 2 deadly killers that copper doesn’t treat

 

[Jedi Knghit]

Are you sure on the Salinity? 1.029 is a little high and most LFS around me seem to be in the 1.020-1.023 range.

 

[aerofly0610]

Are you sure on the Salinity? 1.029 is a little high and most LFS around me seem to be in the 1.020-1.023 range.

Yeah, that threw me for a loop. I did two samples on my refractometer. I did calibrate my refractometer with some calibration fluid when I bought it. I suppose I should have asked them first, but I've read on here where people run into asking doesn't always mean its true. Or maybe I should get a cheap floating hydrometer to make sure they are close?

refractometer

cal fluid

 

[NJDragonet]

Wow that is not good everything that you are doing sounds fine check for ammonia and nirtite and also gobies can be more sensitive but damsels and clowns are the hardiest fish I can think off can we have more pics

 

[Jedi Knghit]

As long as you measured the salinity in the bag and QT with the same equipment and the measurements were the same, I would think you are ok. But it does not hurt to have a second device to double check. My main concern was that you didn't mix up the different salinity measurements, part per thousand (PPT) vs Specific Gravity (SG). The "29" stuck out to me because 29 PPT is around 1.0.22 which is more inline with what I see locally from LFS and it would be a big jump to 1.029 sg which could cause issues for the fish.

 

[aerofly0610]

Wow that is not good everything that you are doing sounds fine check for ammonia and nirtite and also gobies can be more sensitive but damsels and clowns are the hardiest fish I can think off can we have more pics

Well I've dosed with some more copper now so ammonia tests won't work, right? The ammonia alert shows yellow. I read on here that Prime is ok to use with copper power, so I dosed the QT tank with prime. That did not resolve anything. The damsel is almost gone. He is breathing but no longer moving at all. You can see the clownfish seem fine. I am getting some fresh saltwater ready should I need to do a WT. Which I had planned on doing every weekend while in QT. OH and the thermometer is 0.3*F too high and I've been fighting with the heater to get it down to 80. That's what I want to keep my DT at for doing corals later. I can change the temps if need be. If it maters, the tank was wiped with vinegar and RODI before use. The other stuff was rinsed with RODI. The plant was added a few hours ago because the daughter wanted some pretty in the tank.

 

[Jedi Knghit]

It is my understanding that Ammonia tests do not work in the presence of Copper. The ammonia badge should work fine. I've never used prime, but here is a link regarding prime and copper power.

PSA: PRIME safe to use with COPPER POWER

7/13/2023 Note: There is still some question in my mind about using any of the three copper products (Cupramine, Copper Power and Coppersafe) with an EXCESS of any reducing agents. These can include formalin, sodium thiosulfate, Prime or possibly even Amquel. Anything that can break the...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[mike550]

@aerofly0610 this really sucks. Sorry to hear what’s happening and as others have said it sounds like you’re doing everything right.

I have a couple of thoughts. First, I don’t start copper or any meds until fish are comfortable in the QT. Usually 24-48 hours. Second, how are you measuring copper?

 

[aerofly0610]

@aerofly0610 this really sucks. Sorry to hear what’s happening and as others have said it sounds like you’re doing everything right.

I have a couple of thoughts. First, I don’t start copper or any meds until fish are comfortable in the QT. Usually 24-48 hours. Second, how are you measuring copper?

i really appreciate how this community is jumping in to help. So I had planned on starting copper after 48hrs to let the fish settle in. I’ve read on here different opinions where some start right away or wait 48hrs.
I have an API kit to measure the copper power. I read a thread on here that the API works with CPower. however I get really frustrated with API kits because I have a hard time with the shades of color. I think I am going to order a Hanna copper tester. I might toss all my api testers and get something different.

The damsel survived the night but is at least now moving it’s fins. On the off chance this is a water quality issue I did a 50% water change this morning. Dropped the salinity a tad should that be an issue. I’ll continue to observe and keep a log of what I am doing.

Maybe I messed up on the setup of the QT. I seeded it with bac from my DT and ran it a couple days before the fish came home. I made fresh water that day for about a 90%water change before they went in. I figured that should be fine because the bac is in the filter and sponge I floated. I dumped in bio spira just to make sure there was enough bac.

 

[aerofly0610]

So the damsel is still alive to my surprise. It mostly sits on the bottom. When I do see it swim it's all over the place like its drunk. The clowns nip at it, which is odd since they were in the same tank at the LFS. Then the damsel goes back into its corner and lays on its side. Clowns still swimming all over the place and are eating fine. I haven't seen the damsel eat yet.

I did order a Hanna copper checker from BRS so I can get a more accurate reading than the API. I should be around 1ppm but I have a hard time with the shades of color.