First timing dealing with Ich. Need help as have some unique options.

[AllanPritchard]

Hi All

Long story short, I thought my fish had flukes but after getting my XR30's back after warranty claim the lights showed up what was lots of little white spots on my Yellow tang. I have hurriedly purchased 3 100 lt containers and two sets of equipment to do the tank transfer method. Sadly the yellow tang died tonight (he was the most sick but was doing ok until the lights went out) but I have moved 1/2 the fish over tonight and will tackle the rest in the morning.

Current plan is
- I was going to increase the temp of my display to 28 deg and leave fallow for 6 weeks (advice by Dr HumbleFish) but need to double check my facts that increasing the temp can reduce the fallow period from 72 days to 42 days.
- Continue to do tank transfer for the next 12-14 days - doing one extra transfer, tonight's transfer won't count because the 72hrs max may be exceeded, not sure yet.

My dilemma is
- I have a secondary cycled FOWLR system with two clown fish - this has a significant chance of having ich in it as I moved 3 corals in to recover. I want to cleans this system to use as a home while the display is fallow. The system is 100 lt with a LOT of live rock in it but I have just plumber in an additional 100 lt tank but haven't added water.

Can I remove the 2 clown fish and 3 corals and do something to this system over the next 12-14 days to remove the Ich but maintain the cycle (as much as possible) - I was thinking to raise the temp significantly over a number of days to something like 35 deg?.

Any ideas how i can use this cycled system as a temp home while display is fallow but quickly remove any Ich before hand ?.

Cheers
Al

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

IMO - using TTM once you've already lost some fish to ich may not work well. In fact, even copper treatments have a difficult time catching up and stopping further losses.

See the sticky thread at the top of this section - I'm advocating 45 days for a fallow period at 81 degrees or warmer.

I'm not quite sure I understand the dilemma part - moving the corals may have moved ich, but your clowns may be able to "manage" it - or not, time will tell. There aren't any chemicals you could add that would kill the tomonts that might be in there. Raising the temperature in theory will hasten the tomonts releasing theronts, but you would be in uncharted territory as far as timing. Safest thing would be 45 days at min080's temperature.

Jay

 

[AllanPritchard]

I'm not quite sure I understand the dilemma part - moving the corals may have moved ich, but your clowns may be able to "manage" it - or not, time will tell.

My dilemma is that I will have 8 fish that will need a home while the display is fallow for whatever time frame is required. I have the FOWLR system but it possible it has ich as well. I can move the inhabitants of that to another tank which would leave a cycled system with GHA and bristle worms and possible ich. Would raising the temp of that system (with no fish or corals) cause the ich life cycle to increase that the fallow of that system is around 15-20 days allowing me to repopulate that while the DT runs its course.

My unique situation is I have a lot of space ( 1200 sq ft barn) and a number of tanks, plenty of time and a lot of determination that my pets survive. just trying to maximise my success.

Would there be a better option than tank transfer method. ?

 

[AllanPritchard]

The average life cycle for Cryptocaryon irritans is much shorter than most hobbyist believe and strongly depends on the environment. In a QT tank lacking substrate with good oxygen saturation and no anaerobic pockets at 78-80 °F and 35 ppt salinity, Colorni (paper attached) has shown infective parasites will excyst from tomites within 13 days.

I read through the Sticky. One point that was made was by Courtney (quote above). Given that Live rock will have Anaerobic pockets, will raising the salinity (or lowering) or raising the temp (or lowering) have an influence on the tomites where anaerobic pockets exist. i.e can you move the life cycle of Cryptocaryon within a live rock system without detrimental harm to the bacteria in the live rock.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

My dilemma is that I will have 8 fish that will need a home while the display is fallow for whatever time frame is required. I have the FOWLR system but it possible it has ich as well. I can move the inhabitants of that to another tank which would leave a cycled system with GHA and bristle worms and possible ich. Would raising the temp of that system (with no fish or corals) cause the ich life cycle to increase that the fallow of that system is around 15-20 days allowing me to repopulate that while the DT runs its course.

My unique situation is I have a lot of space ( 1200 sq ft barn) and a number of tanks, plenty of time and a lot of determination that my pets survive. just trying to maximise my success.

Would there be a better option than tank transfer method. ?

That’s what I thought, no - you would be in uncharted territory trying really warm water to speed the fallow period up that much. Another idea would be to sterilize the tank and restart the biofilter, but that would be difficult in that time frame as well.
I’m not a fan of TTM as it really only controls ich, and then, only if done exactly right. Still, since you are only worried about ich here, it does have more application on your case. Copper is my go to.
Jay

 

[AllanPritchard]

Managed to capture all the fish and put them in tank 1. As a lot of tank water went in as well I will move them tomorrow to start the TTM. I have one Pyramid Butterfly who is very sick, he was on his side this morning and I gave him a fresh water dip to see if it would help, He did perk up a little during the day but is back on his side. Should I do another fresh water dip to see if I can get him through the night. ?

 

[Sandersonville]

That’s what I thought, no - you would be in uncharted territory trying really warm water to speed the fallow period up that much. Another idea would be to sterilize the tank and restart the biofilter, but that would be difficult in that time frame as well.
I’m not a fan of TTM as it really only controls ich, and then, only if done exactly right. Still, since you are only worried about ich here, it does have more application on your case. Copper is my go to.
Jay

I’ve read fresh water kills marine ich. If restarting the bio filter is an option, what effect would draining the tank, refilling with fresh water and running for a period of time before draining and refilling with salt water again?

 

[AllanPritchard]

Should I move the sick pirymid butterfly to the first tank tonight? Will it help after a fresh water dip for 4 min ? Or is it just up to nature now ?

 

[AllanPritchard]

Unfortunately the pyramid butterfly didn’t make it checked after tea and he had gone.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Just woke up and saw your posts overnight - how do the rest of the fish look now? Could the pyramid have had two issues? They are very prone to Neobenedenia.

Jay

 

[AllanPritchard]

The fish I could see are all OK, it seems it effected some fish worse than others although I was surprise how fast the Smiths Blenny went down. Initially I thought it was intestinal worms as the yellow tang was getting thinner and thinner so I treated with Praziquantel. But then I saw the small dots on the yellow tang which I hadn't noticed (only saw once I got my Radion xr30's back). I couldn't see any dots on the other fish but the pyramid butterfly's eyes went cloudy. I will do the second and third dose of Praziquantel as they move through the tanks, 24 hrs before the move just to be sure.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

The spots on the fins AND the body are more indicative of ich, while mucus production is seen more on the body. This is where diagnosing from just a picture really breaks down - I see some spots that look like ich, but others are not round, and could just be mucus. What we do is take a skin biopsy in these cases and look at them under a microscope - that rules ich in or out pretty quick. I suppose that isn't an option for you, so would your plan be to continue with the TTM?

Jay

 

[AllanPritchard]

My current plan is to do the TTM and then put them in a holding tank for the 45 days. During this time is there anything else I should treat with both the fish and/or main display.

Unfortunately a biopsy is probably not possible. we don't really have the same service here in New Zealand.