First water change after cycle

[Bio32]

Hello all,
Hope everyone is safe out there

Just started a Bio cube 32 ..10 days ago. 29lbs live rock , live sand and Dr Tims.

I assume ive cycled as I haven't detected any levels 0, 0, 0 ; I added 2 small clowns Tuesday; still 0 across the board.

When do you recommend doing first water change and how how much

 

[Euphyllia97]

Hi! Congrats on starting the tank.
I’m a bit surprised that you have a nitrate reading of 0 after the tank cycle. Ideally you want to see an ammonia reading being converted to nitrite. With a 0 ammonia and readable nitrite value, you should start to look for nitrates. Once you have nitrates and 0 value for Ammonia and nitrite, you can lower the nitrates by doing the first WC.
I’m a bit stuck on how you got 0 nitrates and see no reason to do any water change for the moment. I assume you have added some source of ammonia?

 

[Bio32]

Hi! Congrats on starting the tank.
I’m a bit surprised that you have a nitrate reading of 0 after the tank cycle. Ideally you want to see an ammonia reading being converted to nitrite. With a 0 ammonia and readable nitrite value, you should start to look for nitrates. Once you have nitrates and 0 value for Ammonia and nitrite, you can lower the nitrates by doing the first WC.
I’m a bit stuck on how you got 0 nitrates and see no reason to do any water change for the moment. I assume you have added some source of ammonia?

thanks for quick reply

10 days ago when started tank...i introduced the live rock and was told to add the Dr Tims right away as the live rock would have some dead material that would trigger ammonia.... i stared testing the water shortly after and have not seen any levels. Only chem/mech filter material i have is chemi blue and floss...

 

[Bio32]

Just as I was posting this thread i did another ammonia test and Boom...lol now i have approx .25 ammonia so i guess Dr Tims is not a permanent fix.

 

[Euphyllia97]

thanks for quick reply

10 days ago when started tank...i introduced the live rock and was told to add the Dr Tims right away as the live rock would have some dead material that would trigger ammonia.... i stared testing the water shortly after and have not seen any levels. Only chem/mech filter material i have is chemi blue and floss...

Hmmm... To be on the safe side, I would add some ammonia until you have a readable level and see if your tank converts it to nitrate.

 

[brandon429]

You had a skip cycle reef, it was ready ten days ago and the bottle bac not needed, but not harmful

your tank is immune to any degree of water change; its not possible to harm your cycle by changing water. I have a video of me draining a 14 yr nano reef full of corals (but no fish its coral only) to the sand and walking away for half an hour, and refilling with all new water. it went 30 mins in the cold air.

interesting reverse engineering of skip cycle reefs: lets say you wanted in 3 mos to take that reef and move it to another room.

you could take out rocks and hold in a bucket

drain water

remove sand

carry empty tank to bedroom, and set it all back up in reverse order and nothing will die (if you handle the sand correctly)

it works like that from day 1, from the pet store to your home

it was already cycled rock before you bought them; we can see colored red pigments above that take months to form. upon really close inspection, that rock likely has other proof of attached animals. that is how the biology of skip cycling works, a cycle cannot be undone by any degree of moving rocks, or changing water.

once you know this, it makes you free to take apart your reef to kill algae, or deep clean it. make it live forever, without relying on luck.

 

[Krully]

When you say Dr Tims are you talking about ammonia or bacteria? Because if that's bacteria the most likely scenario is that you didn't have any die off on your live rock, hence no ammonia detected because there is none, and your cycle has barely begun since you haven't added any ammonia source. I could be wrong but this is what I understand reading your posts.

 

[brandon429]

see the growths on that live rock, how the pigment changes shade to shade

all that forms after nitrifying bacteria by rule

bottle bac takes about a week to adhere onto surfaces were this dry rock/white start, its been ten days.

plus, wet pack sand imports cycling bac that masks test readings from uncycled surfaces, he has a blended start with live rocks therefore his bacteria works as stated above, even if that wasnt a live rock start his dry rock tank could pass a full water change and not reset.

any cycle cannot be undone by changing water, its been well past the time bottle bac take to adhere. that his fish are alive and not in cloudy water is how we know the bac werent dead, along with the signs of life on the rocks already. his pic speaks a hundred details.

 

[brandon429]

yep upon closer inspection I can see tufted brown algae growth adhered to the whiter rocks, up top, just under that coralline rock.

that alone means all the white rock components from this tank come from submersion longer than 30 days, which means cycled due to submersion time axis on a cycling chart

I would predict there's a vat or tank marked live rock at the pet store, and it has pods animals/ brittle starfish in it + coralline live rock and some of it has only been in a few mos/the white rocks with very light coralline.
some of that might be Caribsea liferock; which also activates by design within two weeks underwater.


all of that is skip cycle rock. you can mail it (TBS live rock business KPA aquatics mails live rock) move it, upgrade it, downgrade it, leave it in the air half an hour and do a 100% water change every day, and it will never uncycle.

 

[Bio32]

When you say Dr Tims are you talking about ammonia or bacteria? Because if that's bacteria the most likely scenario is that you didn't have any die off on your live rock, hence no ammonia detected because there is none, and your cycle has barely begun since you haven't added any ammonia source. I could be wrong but this is what I understand reading your posts.

Correct.... as per fish store i added Dr tims Bacteria the same day I added live rock. the idea was live rock would have some die off and trigger ammonia cycle ....never happened... week later I added 2 small clonws.....11 days later...TODAY i tested and now have .25 ammonia... Grrrrrr

 

[brandon429]

that is zero ammonia.

Ill post you a ten page thread proving why if you want


.25 on api is your official 'go' proof. all set. (it means the real ammonia is in the thousandths ppm, not tenths)

.25 or .5 as a daily reading for API specifically means the real reading is .00x

the kit is that far off accurate.

no reef can have holding .25 ammonia in the presence of activated rock and sand is the short answer as to why that reading is wrong. API has been doing this to reefers for twenty years or better

this hobby is barely out of the stone ages regarding what bacteria do. nowadays we proof off tank pics. use Seneye if you want accurate ammonia.

 

[brandon429]

to summarize: per pics, nothing is wrong with this tank its the nicest sharpest and most stable it can be. waiting arbitrary lengths of time for a test to agree with fine pics, happy fish, is precisely what the twenty year trail of API shows if we google:

API false .25 ammonia. a million results.

API has helped sell thousands of dollars in redundant, unneeded bottle bac sales because it makes reefers think their cycle is stuck (cycles can never stall in reefing)

the LFS that sold you bottle bac here, when not needed (dieoff doesn't occur/see 30 mins drain video of live reef) also ripped you off but they likely did not know better. #stoneages.

 

[Bio32]

Hi! Congrats on starting the tank.
I’m a bit surprised that you have a nitrate reading of 0 after the tank cycle. Ideally you want to see an ammonia reading being converted to nitrite. With a 0 ammonia and readable nitrite value, you should start to look for nitrates. Once you have nitrates and 0 value for Ammonia and nitrite, you can lower the nitrates by doing the first WC.
I’m a bit stuck on how you got 0 nitrates and see no reason to do any water change for the moment. I assume you have added some source of ammonia?

I havent detected any levels 0,0,0 until today where it appears i have a slight ammonia level of .25

 

[brandon429]

Just to show the power of .25 on a test check this work out

Ammonia- not going away

I finally got a RODI system. it is the RO buddie 4 stage system and I have a pre-filter system as well. The TDS reading is 0 and when I test the water it is ammonia free. My tank is 2 and half months old. I have minimal diatoms and cyano now. Now I am forming green circles on my glass, it is...

www.reef2reef.com

There are thousands of stuck cycle threads but troubleshooting them is easy: look for living fish that means zero ammonia

 

[Bio32]

Just to show the power of .25 on a test check this work out

Ammonia- not going away

I finally got a RODI system. it is the RO buddie 4 stage system and I have a pre-filter system as well. The TDS reading is 0 and when I test the water it is ammonia free. My tank is 2 and half months old. I have minimal diatoms and cyano now. Now I am forming green circles on my glass, it is...

www.reef2reef.com

There are thousands of stuck cycle threads but troubleshooting them is easy: look for living fish that means zero ammonia

I appreciate all your responses but not exactly sure what you're saying....? showing slight trace .25 from an API ammonia test kit after 12 days. currently only live rock and 2 small clowns

 

[brandon429]

have mentioned in detail above why there is no free ammonia, its zero. you simply have a test kit that can't read bottom measures very accurately. .25=0

the growths on your live rock prove you are cycled, for reasons listed below.

if you want to learn about cycling bacteria this thread covers it all for sure
Your expenditures on bottle bacteria will drop after learning this material, to know this will directly save you money.

The microbiology of reef tank cycling.

You can skip your cycle. Ive been reefing online for twenty years and have never waited one second for a tank to cycle, because I buy rocks that are already cycled and move them home. Here's two: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/octo-high-end-sps-skip-cycle-build.713256/...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Bio32]

have mentioned in detail above why there is no free ammonia, its zero. you simply have a test kit that can't read bottom measures very accurately. .25=0

the growths on your live rock prove you are cycled, for reasons listed below.

if you want to learn about cycling bacteria this thread covers it all for sure
Your expenditures on bottle bacteria will drop after learning this material, to know this will directly save you money.

The microbiology of reef tank cycling.

You can skip your cycle. Ive been reefing online for twenty years and have never waited one second for a tank to cycle, because I buy rocks that are already cycled and move them home. Here's two: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/octo-high-end-sps-skip-cycle-build.713256/...

www.reef2reef.com

thanks again...you're right, i need to read more about this. So in a nutshell, you're saying that when i started this 12 days ago with 28lbs of live rock and bottle of Dr Tims Bac. the tank cycled and the ammonia reading im getting today is not very accurate as it fluctuates btwn 0 and .25. Whats your opinion of adding small amount of Chaeto to Refugium are in filter area....i.e. bio cube 32 to continue the natural bio filtration? I only have a small bag of chemipure blue and floss in there right now